1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

Need Advice About Lathe Collets

Discussion in 'A BEGINNER'S FORUM (Learn How To Machine Here!)' started by divb, Jun 19, 2017.

Tags:
  1. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Honolulu
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    This is a good place to remind folks, especially those who have never used a collet chuck, that there is nothing magic about a collet chuck. It has the potential to hold a work piece accurately, yes, but the contact surface of any collet is rather small compared to a jawed chuck. The collet will hold the work solidly enough to resist cutting forces up close to the chuck but the farther you are from the chuck, the more the potential for deflection. This is especially true if you are using a carbide tool, which will deflect the work piece all by itself. (EDIT: Not fair; a HSS tool will deflect the work piece, too, but not as much as a carbide insert will.)

    It is wise to extend the work piece only as far as you need to, and if that extension is greater than 1-1/2 to 2 times the diameter of the work piece then consider using a live center to support the work. This matters when the work must be held to close tolerances but it is also good workmanship if that is important to you. In fact, this advice also applies to a jawed chuck as well.

    Deflection is a real thing and it has several sources, primarily the size and material of the work, cutting tool and the way we support the work piece. By supporting the work piece properly we eliminate one factor and minimize the effect of the other. When accuracy matters and tolerances are tight, do all you can to minimize deflection.
     
    Zathros, higgite and divb like this.
  2. Wreck™Wreck

    Wreck™Wreck United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,246
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Riverton
    State:
    New Jersey

    -Return to Top-

    Many collet designs will hold the part better then a scroll chuck while not damaging it in the process, I have spun a good deal of drills and taps in turret lathes yet have never spun a part in a 5C collet machine, Warner & Swasey push collets are bullet proof for the most part.

    Also Swiss style lathes do the cutting far from the actual chuck through a bushing that rotates with the spindle with no clamping force, the bushing must have enough clearance to pass the stock without hanging up, it works. This of course requires round stock that has already been ground to size. A basic explination of how Swiss lathes differ from conventional machines may be found here.

    http://todaysmachiningworld.com/magazine/how-it-works-why-swiss/
     
    Zathros, 4gsr, BGHansen and 6 others like this.
  3. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Honolulu
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    Okay, for the hobby machinists with Swiss lathes, please ignore my comments. :)
     
    Zathros and higgite like this.
  4. The_Apprentice

    The_Apprentice Canada Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Niagara
    State:
    Outside US / Canada

    -Return to Top-

    When I was in my young teens and working in my father's shop, 99% of the time the work was being carried out on collets. I will definitely pick some up in the near future, long before I get a 4-jaw chuck I think.
     
  5. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Honolulu
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    I would get the independent 4 jaw chuck first if I were you. Far more useful and accurate.
     
    Tozguy likes this.
  6. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Hereford
    State:
    Arizona

    -Return to Top-

    Depends on what you use your lathe for I guess. Can't remember the last time I used a 4-jaw chuck. It's been decades though.

    Haven't even bothered to unpack the one I got with the 1340. YMMV... :)
     
  7. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Honolulu
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    Says the guy with an Adjust-tru chuck! :D
     
    4gsr, higgite and wrmiller like this.
  8. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Hereford
    State:
    Arizona

    -Return to Top-

    Your right Mike. I do sometimes look at things from my perspective only.

    If I DIDN'T have my PBA I would have to use my 4-jaw for barrel work, and any other operation that requires re-chucking a piece. Which is why I bought the set-tru. Hate using a 4-jaw... ;)
     
    higgite and mikey like this.
  9. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Honolulu
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    I hear you, Bill. I keep saying that my Adjust-tru just happens to have 4 jaws but I'm just kidding myself. One day I will own one, too. I tell you, you and Will (@darkzero) are really bad for my budget!!
     
  10. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Hereford
    State:
    Arizona

    -Return to Top-

    Budget?!? What budget?

    The nice folks here on the forums (darkzero being one...) blew my so-called 'budget' into the weeds years ago. :confused:

    Truth be told, I'm actually glad they did. Now that the money tree is gone (early 'retirement') I can no longer afford any major purchases. The one machine I didn't get was a small surface grinder. Oh well, such is life.

    With any luck, my PM machines will last longer than I. :)
     
    darkzero, 4gsr, higgite and 1 other person like this.
  11. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,163
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Almonte
    State:
    Ontario

    -Return to Top-

    From the link provided by @Wreck™Wreck:

    Expect to pay around $170,000 for a mid-range 20 mm (about 3/4″) unit.​

    <whistle> I'm out! :frown:

    But that was a great link Wreck, I never had the difference explained before.
    Thanks!

    -brino
     
    4gsr, higgite and mikey like this.
  12. benmychree

    benmychree United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    305
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Saint Helena
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    There is a Jacobs collet chuck that is smaller than the one pictured, it is the Model 50, and uses series 500 collets with a max capacity of 1" and an O.D. of about 6" on the handwheel
     
    4gsr, wrmiller and higgite like this.
  13. Tozguy

    Tozguy Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Drummondville
    State:
    Province du Quebec

    -Return to Top-

    Ah geez, now I want a Swiss lathe.
     
    Reeltor, 4gsr, wrmiller and 3 others like this.
  14. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,163
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Almonte
    State:
    Ontario

    -Return to Top-

    Maybe if you just drilled a bunch of random holes thru the lathe you have you could convince yourself that you already have one.:grin big:

    -brino
     
    mikey, Zathros, francist and 4 others like this.
  15. Zathros

    Zathros Netherlands Steel Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    13
    City:
    Rotterdam
    State:
    Outside US / Canada

    -Return to Top-

    You're welcome, I rather use à collet because it is better centered. Any workpiece round and max size of my lathe collet holder I prefer to use collets instead of the 3 or 4 jaw Chucks.
    As one mentioned à good but mostly expensive Chuck Ok but collets are quicker removing worpieces and better centered for lot less money.
    Just My 2 ct
    Grts
    T


    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro
     
    Tozguy likes this.
  16. Zathros

    Zathros Netherlands Steel Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    13
    City:
    Rotterdam
    State:
    Outside US / Canada

    -Return to Top-

    Brino even à cheap 3jaw Chuck is more expensive here than à complete er25 collet set with holder. It depends where you buy off course and were you live off course but What is keeping you from searching outside the borders. I bought à few sets of the cheapest er series from 11 up to 35 and they deliver more satisfying results than default chuck from the lathe that cost me the same as the whole collet range I have. I guess Chuck are more expensive here in europe.



    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro
     
    Tozguy likes this.
  17. Zathros

    Zathros Netherlands Steel Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    13
    City:
    Rotterdam
    State:
    Outside US / Canada

    -Return to Top-

    I have à made in swiss lathe milling combi set. And their chucks are not that good as I like them to be. So therefor I use collets where I can. Even so I found out that à lot of their acesories are just imported from Some of the better Chinese factories. Which is cheaper to buy directly from the Oriënt side of this 3rd rock from the sun.



    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro
     
    Tozguy and mikey like this.
  18. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Honolulu
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    Have never been to Rotterdam but have seen pictures that some friends took of your beautiful city - it is just stunning, especially at night.
     
    Zathros likes this.
  19. Zathros

    Zathros Netherlands Steel Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    13
    City:
    Rotterdam
    State:
    Outside US / Canada

    -Return to Top-

    That's why I love to ride My bicycle at night also. And make those parts myself often. And off course in lathe and milling forums.
    For My other hobby astronomy it is less suited by light polution tho.


    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro
     
    mikey and Tozguy like this.
  20. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,302
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    USA
    City:
    Los Angeles
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    I've got 2 Set-Tru chucks & a cheap chuck that I turned into a Tap-Tru but I still use the 4-jaw indy for times I have to dial something in where my Set-Trus won't work.

    That and my 4-jaw is bigger than my Set-Tru chucks so it has a larger capacity & it grips much harder. I like my most used chucks to be one size smaller than my 4 jaw. I don't like cranking down on my scroll chucks hard so when I need to really hold something tight I'm happy to use the 4-jaw, plus it's fun dialing in. :)

    I adapted a collet chuck to my lathe but honestly I never use it. I only use it when I'm working on really small stuff, 6-jaws hitting my knuckles is not fun, I don't want anymore of that pain. I have an ER chuck & it's slow to use. Maybe if I had a 5C collet closer setup I would use them more but I doubt I will ever go that route.
     
    wrmiller, 4gsr and mikey like this.
  21. Wreck™Wreck

    Wreck™Wreck United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,246
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Riverton
    State:
    New Jersey

    -Return to Top-

    One of the advantages of collets is that they do not vaporize coolant as a jawed chuck will, turn an 8" 3 jaw at 3000 RPM's with flood coolant and it creates a fog that will get everywhere.

    Was turning 8-32 threads .225" long to a shoulder today in a 3 jaw, started at 1500 RPM's but the coolant was getting out of hand and backed it down to 1000. With a collet chuck I would have run it at 3000 without issue.
    Pesky little buggers to run in a 15 X 40 lathe, only 40 parts however.

    [​IMG]
     
    brino, mikey and francist like this.

Share This Page