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My new old Deckel FP1

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samthedog

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#1
Well gents, I have been bitten by the tool-lust bug. I happened across an older FP1 with quite a bit of equipment and the price was right so I jumped at it. I have yet to get it home and start cleaning her up but so far I am pretty happy. A friend of mine mentioned that the machine was available through a nice gent I got to know through our Scandinavian scraping course. I got in contact with him and the rest is history.

Anyway, what is a thread without pictures?

Deckel FP1 front view.jpg Deckel FP1 side view 2.jpg Deckel FP1 side view.jpg Deckel FP1 Head.jpg Deckel switches.jpg Deckel dividing head.jpg Deckel DRO.jpg

It is a MT4 spindle so I am guessing it puts the age of the machine in the early 60's - which is fine as it is the same vintage as my Colchester Chipmaster. It also came with a cabinet of goodies like the horizontal head, arbors, tooling, dividing head tailstock and bunches of collets. I am fairly excited to see how much better life is with a DRO as none of my machines have one. Accuracy of the machine should be very good as I can still machining marks on all the dovetails.

I'll post pictures when I get her home and start the cleaning, electrical and repair process.

Paul.

Deckel dividing head.jpg Deckel DRO.jpg Deckel FP1 front view.jpg Deckel FP1 Head.jpg Deckel FP1 side view 2.jpg Deckel FP1 side view.jpg Deckel switches.jpg
 

18w

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#2
Paul that is a very nice looking machine. I really like a lot of the features that came on European mills. Wish they weren't so rare and expensive here in the U.S. I have lusted over Deckel and Abene mills for years and I have yet to see one in my part of the country.


Regards
Darrell
 

samthedog

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#3
Hello Darrell, the Abene was actually on my list of dream milling machines. It is a fantastic machine and people I know that own one wouldn't go back to anything else. If you want an Abene the easiest way would be to get to know someone in Sweden. They come up for sale regularly and to have one shipped to the USA shouldn't be too expensive. The mills themselves tend to hover between 3000 USD and 10000 usd, depending of course on wether the sale is private or through a dealer and also on the equipment that follows.

I have been on the lookiut for a Deckel FP1 or FP2 for a while since my current mill has a .75 HP motor and I was looking for a more powerful machine. The FP1 has a 2 HP motor so it should handle heavier cuts than my Jungner did. I am however stuck with a challenge that I need to track down MT4 tooling since I only have a limited amount that followed the machine.

I spoke to a friend I made through the scraping course and he has the same machine. I will be visiting him mid January to have a look and plan how to move forward. Here is a link to his machine and wondeerful workshop:

http://www.missiseipi.com/105794860

I have a bit of a pot luck assortment of odds an ends in the large tool chest that follows the machine to start me off:

Tooling 8.jpg Tooling1.jpg Tooling 2.jpg Tooling 3.jpg Tooling 4.jpg Tooling 5.jpg Tooling 6.jpg Tooling 7.jpg

Paul

Tooling 2.jpg Tooling 3.jpg Tooling 4.jpg Tooling 5.jpg Tooling 6.jpg Tooling 7.jpg Tooling 8.jpg Tooling1.jpg
 

18w

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#4
Paul, thanks for the pictures and the link. It looks like you have a great start on tooling. Having all those collets and arbors should allow you to use the mill right away. What are you looking for in the way of #4 tooling?
Your friends shop is absolutely amazing, beyond amazing actually. You mentioned meeting him at a scraping class in Sweden, Rich King's class perhaps?

Regards
Darrell
 

samthedog

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#5
Paul, thanks for the pictures and the link. It looks like you have a great start on tooling. Having all those collets and arbors should allow you to use the mill right away. What are you looking for in the way of #4 tooling?
Your friends shop is absolutely amazing, beyond amazing actually. You mentioned meeting him at a scraping class in Sweden, Rich King's class perhaps?

Regards
Darrell
Hello Darrell, the scraping course where we met was the one organized by Jan Sverre in Norway. There awere 9 of us that attended, 2 Australians, 2 Brits and 5 Norwegians. When it comes to machines I am one of the novices in the group and their workshops put mine to shame. I am slowly growing in my skills and quality of equipment. Some things I guess just can't be rushed.

As far as #4 tooling goes the main items I am looking for are a drill arbor, ER32 collet chuck and a universal boring head. I would also really like to get my hands on an FP1 slotting head. As luck would have it, one of my friend's contacts had a FP1 universal table which I was fortunate enough to buy from him today for $400 USD, This is a sought after accessory so I am feeling very blessed I happpened to come upon it.

So far everything seems to be just falling into place with this machine. I think this is the least hassle and stress I have had with a machine purchase so I am feeling really good about the whole purchase.

Paul.
 

rcflier

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#6
Hi Paul and once again congratulations on your purchase. It's looking better each time I look at the pictures.

From what I can see on another forum, your FP1 could be from 1964 or slightly newer.

So the usual hunt for Deckelstuff is now on - but in a laid back, relaxed way. As you need just a chuck for your ER 32 collets,
and then you're all ready. You have the need-to-have accessories and tooling. Now you can just hunt the would-like-to-have stuff for fun.

Cheers
Erik
 
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samthedog

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#7
Thanks Erik, and thanks again for all the advice and encouragement in the purchasing process. I have already located a universal table for 2450 DKK and will be picking it up soon. I am really suprised that it was so new as I thought that it was a late 50's model. That would indicate that the head is a bearing model, not a bush model.

As I said, if you happen across a slotting head or a boring head with spacer, please let me know as soon as you do. I can't wait to get it home and set up. I am still not sure if I will get rid of the electrical cabinet. I like to keep things as original as possible :))

Thanks again for the assistance.

Paul.
 

rcflier

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#8
Well Paul, I got the age wrong with a few years, it seems. I have edited my post. The posts with the serial numbers are quite confusing. But nothing to worry about.

Do keep the electrical cabinet as long as you can - like you write, it's original.

I'll contact you soonest if/when I find a slotting head or a boring head. Or any other desirable 4MT FP1 item.

Cheers
Erik
 

samthedog

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#9
Well Paul, I got the age wrong with a few years, it seems. I have edited my post. The posts with the serial numbers are quite confusing. But nothing to worry about.

Do keep the electrical cabinet as long as you can - like you write, it's original.

I'll contact you soonest if/when I find a slotting head or a boring head. Or any other desirable 4MT FP1 item.

Cheers
Erik
Thanks again Erik. I managed to find and purchse a universal table I was warned that the condition of the surface was not good. I guess opinions differ as I think it is pretty darn good compared to my current mill's table.

FP1 universal table.jpg

Paul.

FP1 universal table.jpg
 

Chipper5783

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#10
Awsome, thank you for posting. Good to see some activity in this part of the forum.

I have the equivalent offering from Maho (MH600) and love it. I also have not used a DRO fitted machine, but have recently purchased a DRO Pro kit and will post the installation of that DRO in this part of the forum.

Congrats on the "new" machine.
 

samthedog

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#11
Awsome, thank you for posting. Good to see some activity in this part of the forum.

I have the equivalent offering from Maho (MH600) and love it. I also have not used a DRO fitted machine, but have recently purchased a DRO Pro kit and will post the installation of that DRO in this part of the forum.

Congrats on the "new" machine.
Thanks Chipper. Good to see there are a few of us with German machines. I vote we make this a lively part of the forum :))
I am still waiting to pick up the machine as the seller is holding it for me. I need to clear out a few machines to make room and he has agreed to wait for me. I am really biting at the bit to get it home. I have a few machining tasks to get done and have been keeping my current mill clean as it is up for sale.

Feel free to post pictures of your Maho. I am really interested in those machines. There are a few with the opinion that Maho is superior to Deckel. I don't know the facts around these claims but am certainly interested in hearing more about the machine.

Paul.
 

Chipper5783

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#12
There are a few with the opinion that Maho is superior to Deckel. I don't know the facts around these claims but am certainly interested in hearing more about the machine.

Paul.
I don't think one could say Maho / Deckel are superior to the other. I think they are both good machines. Okay, I admit I have never operated the equivalent Deckel machine. Per the spec sheet - the FP1 and the MH600 are very, very similar. Deckel offers more attachements, and the accessories are slightly more available on the used machine market.
 

samthedog

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#13
Chipper, any pictures of you machine? What accessories do you have and how have you found the machine in use?

Paul.
 

samthedog

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#15
I just sold my Jungner VF600 to make room for the Deckel so I should be picking it up soon. The only issue is that the pallet it is sitting on is an inch too narrow for my high lift pallet jack. This is going to take some logistical mastery as I will need to get help getting it off the trailer and then need to borrow a pallet jack to get the mill into place into the garage. I also have not worked out where I will be putting the large tool cabinet full of the accessories.

I really don't have much choice but to extend the garage. I am hard pressed for space as I have a mixed shop with wood and metal working. Wood working machines generally require more floor space so they eat up a lot of available room.

Paul.
 

rcflier

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#16
Paul,
can't you make a special (wider) pallet for the FP1 and have it lifted (it's shown how in the manual)
onto your pallet at the place where you've bought it?

Alternatively you have to make some kind of crane (hoist?) to lift it off your trailer, remove the trailer
and then lower it onto your new pallet.

But I'm sure I'd prefer to transport it bolted to as wide a pallet as possible. The engineer/doctor in Munich
I know built a special pallet for his FP2 when he picked it up. His website is brufnut.de.

Cheers
Erik
 
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samthedog

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#17
Paul,
can't you make a special (wider) pallet for the FP1 and have it lifted (it's shown how in the manual)
onto your pallet at the place where you've bought it?

Alternatively you have to make some kind of crane (hoist?) to lift it off your trailer, remove the trailer
and then lower it onto your new pallet.

But I'm sure I'd prefer to transport it bolted to as wide a pallet as possible. The engineer/doctor in Munich
I know built a special pallet for his FP2 when he picked it up. His website is brufnut.de.

Cheers
Erik
We ended up knocking the feet off the pallet and re-attaching them a little further out from the center. This gave enough room for the pallet jack to be slid under the pallet. I ended up moving the mill with the help of Jan Sverre and Tommy and it's now sitting in my garage, waiting to be transported to my shipping container workshop. I just need to get back from Houston and start work on the insulating.

Paul.
 

chucky

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#18
Thanks Erik, and thanks again for all the advice and encouragement in the purchasing process. I have already located a universal table for 2450 DKK and will be picking it up soon. I am really suprised that it was so new as I thought that it was a late 50's model. That would indicate that the head is a bearing model, not a bush model.

As I said, if you happen across a slotting head or a boring head with spacer, please let me know as soon as you do. I can't wait to get it home and set up. I am still not sure if I will get rid of the electrical cabinet. I like to keep things as original as possible :))

Thanks again for the assistance.

Paul.
hello samthedog, I have seen a deckel slotting head for sale in the uk, i can't post a link to it until i have 2 more posts. I'll try a personal message. Chucky
 

samthedog

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#19
Thanks Chucky. I tried to locate it but couldn't find it. A friend has offered me his slotting head which has a slightly scratched dovetail but the price will be about £300 - £350. It will need a repaint and a little bit of tlc.

Paul.
 

chucky

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#20
That's a lot cheaper than the one on the website I told you about, that one was £1150 quid but he says is unused. To find it you really need to scroll down quite a way. It's just after the rotary phase converter. The saving you'll make with the cheaper one will let you buy more toys though. Glad you got sorted.
 

george wilson

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#21
Hi. I have a 70's fp1,and though it came with less tooling,I did get the universal table with it. And the dividing head and some collets. It's power feeds did not work when I got it. I got a manual from Tony Griffiths though. It was a simple fix. WAYYYYYY down in the bottom of the machine's hollow column(It's amazing how fully they use the space in there!) Just off the floor,there is a soft shear pin that I located by studying the drawings. I made a replacement from soft steel and all worked fine.

The Deckel fp1 is a very sought after machine,which,with available accessories,can do about any job when operated by a skilled technician.
 

frugalguido

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#22
I also have a 1970's FP-1 dial machine with the CAT 40 spindle, just have the standard table, but have the dividing head. I also have a 1984 FP2NC CNC. Love the Deckels!
 

British Steel

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#23
I'm waiting for the one in my employer's machine shop with a big "out of order" sign on it to come up for grabs... I already have first refusal, all depends on price and tooling included, it has dial changes and the Semi-CNC DRO but only a plain table, would look good next to my Holbrook.
Of course, I may have bought something else by then :/

Dave H. (the other one)
 

george wilson

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#24
Be careful,British. I don't know a lot about Deckels,though I have an fp1. But,I have read that some of those cnc types can be about impossible to fix.
 

mikey

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#25
Hey @george wilson ! It's been awhile since I've seen you on this site. I've missed your down to earth comments and practical advice. Hope you are well.

Mike
 

george wilson

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#26
Mikey,I am going to have to get 2 knee replacements THIS summer. As it is,they hurt too much to allow me to sit at the computer very long. I'm doing some things to prep for the surgery right now. Thank you for your post.
 

deverett

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#27
All this talk of Dekels. Has no-one got any regard for Thiel machines?!
I have a Thiel 158 (158-144) that dates from 1971 and was originally supplied to the Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft Company. If it was good enough for an aircraft company, it is good enough for me! Paintwork is very sad, but it still 'goes' well.

Dave
The Emerald Isle
 

Silverbullet

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#28
There was an abene mill in New York , fair price but not much if any tooling. Good luck with your new mill, there super machines .
 

bjornsh67

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#29
All this talk of Dekels. Has no-one got any regard for Thiel machines?!
I have a Thiel 158 (158-144) that dates from 1971 and was originally supplied to the Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft Company. If it was good enough for an aircraft company, it is good enough for me! Paintwork is very sad, but it still 'goes' well.

Dave
The Emerald Isle
Hi Dave,

I got a Thiel 159. I can share some pictures later.

Mine is in fairly good shape but got a few dings here and there.

I have got hold of an indexer and the slotting head. I have not tested these to a great extent. It should be possible to do spiral gears but have had no time for this yet.

Bjørn

Samthedog: I will create a new thread of my Thiel! Even though this is a fairly old thread, I regard it better for those interesting in the Fp1 that we try to keep the thread subject on track
 
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