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Morse Taper Mill In Milling Machine

Discussion in 'A BEGINNER'S FORUM (Learn How To Machine Here!)' started by gonzo, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. gonzo

    gonzo United States Active Member Active Member

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    I just tried to use a morse tapered mill cutter in my mill using a r8 to mt2 adapter. The mill cutter keeps falling out.
    Am i to assume that this setup is impossible?
     
  2. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I understand that you are using a milling cutter that has a Morse 2 shank. Some of those have drawbar threads, others do not. In older days, those cutters were widely used. They certainly can fall out if there is no drawbar and there is not a very good fit up between the adapter and cutter Morse taper shanks. Did you tap the cutter into the adapter with a soft head hammer? If not, try that and see if it helps. Another thing is to lightly stone the male taper lengthwise to remove any burs. A very tiny bur can keep the entire taper from fitting correctly. I have a couple new old stock (NOS) MT3 milling cutters without drawbar threads. I do not plan to use them on my mill even though I have an adapter like you have. I am afraid I might end up with the same problem, and ruin a job. I am saving them for use in the lathe tailstock if I need a quick flat bottomed hole, used after a smaller drill bit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
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  3. gonzo

    gonzo United States Active Member Active Member

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    Just what I thought. I got quite a few of these mill cutters along with my sb9 purchase and just thought I would give it a try.
    Thank you for a prompt reply.
     
  4. chips&more

    chips&more United States Active User Active Member

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    Does the taper marriage nicely? Or maybe you have a B&S taper instead of a Morse?
     
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  5. gonzo

    gonzo United States Active Member Active Member

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    Taper seems OK and the mills work nicely in my SB tailstock.
    There is not enough room to whack it with a hammer in my mill but I did press down with the z axis against a block of wood.
     
  6. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You can mark up the male taper with some High Spot Blue or equivalent, a very thin coat, transparent color. Install the male taper carefully, give it about a 90 degree twist, and carefully pull it out. Where the dye has been rubbed sideways you have contact, where the dye is unchanged you have no contact. Burs and dings are common problems, also spin marks in the female tapers. The burs and dings on the male taper can be approached with the High Spot blue and a fine stone used gently, just rub any high spots (you'll feel them) lengthwise, never crosswise, until they smooth out. Don't overdo it, you are trying to retain the original taper, or as much of it as you still can. The female taper can be checked for fit and any high spots can be dressed down with a MT reamer, gently but firmly, while trying to preserve the original taper, just removing the high spots. After doing some of that, you will take a lot better care of your tapers 8^). I have been there, I have done it...
     
  7. 12bolts

    12bolts Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    Morse tapers struggle to hold with lateral loads applied on them. They really need that axial load, (as in drilling) to keep them secure. Or have a drawbar.

    Cheers Phil
     
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  8. bfd

    bfd United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    morse tapers do not hold vibration very well so yes this is not possible without a drawbar holding it in bill
     
  9. Tozguy

    Tozguy Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Add the fact that cutting forces usually tend to pull a milling tool out of the spindle. So even with a taper in perfect condition and tightly inserted at the start, the tool will come out without a drawbar to hold it in.
     
  10. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

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    My VN22l uses NMTB50 holders. I use a drill chuck with a Morse taper shank in an adapter. I know it's not the same type of forces on the taper but I've used some pretty big drills and the taper never pulled out. I seat the taper into the holder by dropping it in; then while holding the holder upside down dropping the assembly onto a wooden workbench from a height of about 6".
    Am I understanding the OP correctly? The End Mill has an integral Morse Taper shank?
     
  11. Ed ke6bnl

    Ed ke6bnl Active Member Active Member

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    all I can say I have a heck of a time getting the MT3 out of my drill press if I want to change the chuck.
     
  12. willthedancer

    willthedancer United States Active Member Active Member

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    After you check the taper with some hi spot blue, and have it all clean, rub the taper down with some chalk and reseat it (if the taper looks good). That may buy you some bite. If the arbor has a tang, you might consider machining it off and drill/tap for a drawbolt, perhaps undersize like 3/8 -24 and a stepped drawbolt just for this setup.

    Good to check for the B&S taper. It's not the same as morse. Detailed specs are in Machinery's Handbook.
     
  13. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    SAM_1612.JPG
    Yes, you do understand correctly. Morse taper shank, no drawbar thread end mills. I have two NOS Putnam ones. They do have tangs. I'll post a picture after a while...

    Edit: Added pic. I understand these were fairly common back in the day. The only place I would consider using them is in the tailstock of the lathe, following a pilot hole. One is 7/8", the other is 1", both MT3.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
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  14. pineyfolks

    pineyfolks Active User Active Member

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    Are you sure they're endmills or are they counterbores?
     
  15. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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  16. bfd

    bfd United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I believe that those tools are known as spotfacers to flatten the area around a hole drilled in a casting so the nut has a flat surface to bear against. force is applied against the taper not sideways bill
     
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