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Monarch being delivered

Walt

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#1
Monarch Move.jpg

It's currently in transit between my garage and my basement. Delivery expected this weekend, but it's moving slowly.

Walt

Monarch Move.jpg
 
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Rbeckett

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#2
Those cribbing timbers look like they are pretty heavy duty too. Once you get the lathe moved to the basement you can use the timbers to build a tooling shadow board and bench. There would be no issues with the bench being strong enough, that is for sure. Where did you find it? It looks like it has been used pretty sparingly form it's cleanliness, but you never can tell till you run it and see what it will do. Is it a multi phase motor or single. If it is a multi are you planning to use a VFD or a RPC? Lots of different options available for that too. Good luck on the move and keep them pics coming!!!

Bob
 

Walt

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#3
Those cribbing timbers look like they are pretty heavy duty too. Once you get the lathe moved to the basement you can use the timbers to build a tooling shadow board and bench. There would be no issues with the bench being strong enough, that is for sure. Where did you find it? It looks like it has been used pretty sparingly form it's cleanliness, but you never can tell till you run it and see what it will do. Is it a multi phase motor or single. If it is a multi are you planning to use a VFD or a RPC? Lots of different options available for that too. Good luck on the move and keep them pics coming!!!

Bob
Hi Bob,

I bought the 4x6" timbers new from a local lumber yard for moving this lathe. (They will get used again. I already had a Precision Mathews mill on order when this lathe came up for sale!) My brother hauled the lathe on his trailer, but could not see a way to get access to my walk-in basement.
Roll-A-Lift Wheel Detail.jpg
The Roll-A-Lifts are the blessing/curse making the move possible. They have the "toe-jack" configuration that makes it possible to get under a heavy machine, and the strength to lift it. The caster-mounted wheels make it possible to move any direction, but they also head downhill and off course at the worst possible time. The C-clamps across the caster turntable (picture) make it more likely the lathe will move where I've pointed it. In the picture I have the jack toes supported by a block of wood and have started pulling the wheels up level with the timber rails.

Monarch On Rails.jpg
The main reason I decided to go with timbers instead of just rolling over plywood is my yard is sloped away from the house and I need to move the lathe sideways across that slope. I was more sure of how to shim timber into level than a sheet of plywood. Letting the lathe get any amount of lean backward or forward (toward the operator station) is not a good thing. Absolutely terrifying is probably a more accurate description. Side to side it's very stable. It took me 6 hours of work to move the lathe 50'. 12 hours if you count the time running to the lumber yard, cutting timbers, getting the lathe up onto the rail timbers, etc. You may notice the cable attached to the back of the lathe. It takes all my strength to lever it forward. Even at a fraction of one mile per hour, the momentum it has is incredible. It's very important to not get "rolling along". Moving an inch or two at a time is vital to safety, mine and the Monarch's.

The story of the lathe is it's a find from Craigslist. The previous owner was about 20 miles from my house. He says he bought if from a machinery dealer who sold his inventory to get out of the business. This lathe was going to be his special project for himself, but he never got around to refurbishing it. The guy I bought from intended to change the drive to something more simple and modern. I found the thread he started over on PM. The folks over there convinced him it was a bigger project than he really wanted to take on either to change or restore the original drive.

I have very little experience with lathes and have no ability to evaluate its condition beyond noting there are no obvious signs of wear on the ways like grooves or dings.

Monarch Nameplate.jpg

It's a 1941 model with a motor-generator set. I hope to get the original drive going again using a rotary phase converter. There is a beat-up DC power supply of dubious origin (no manufacturer label) that comes with the lathe, I'll evaluate that for parts. It's going to take a while to get the lathe running. I've been reading everything I can find.

Walt

Roll-A-Lift Wheel Detail.jpg Monarch On Rails.jpg Monarch Nameplate.jpg
 

woodtickgreg

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#4
Wow, that is some cool looking lathe. I wonder what the weight is. Keep us updated on the progress.
 

toag

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#5
they weigh about 3200 with everything intact. nice move Walt! Would pipe rollers have worked or were the roll-a-hoists a necessity?
I never count the trips to get the tools we need in the time it takes to do something:whistle:
 

genec

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#6
It's just like building a pyramid one brick at a time. Congratulations on your find. Remember to keep your jack release close at hand in case you get a runaway you can just lower the back end to the ground.:tiphat:
 

Cal Haines

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#7
Walt,

Glad to see that you have the machine! I was following the thread about it over at PM. I'll be more than happy to help you get the drive running again. I have a 1943 motor/generator 10EE.

I love the roll-a-lifts. Are you renting them?

Cal
 

Walt

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#8
they weigh about 3200 with everything intact. nice move Walt! Would pipe rollers have worked or were the roll-a-hoists a necessity?
I never count the trips to get the tools we need in the time it takes to do something:whistle:
Hi Toag,

I think rollers might have been a better choice (at this point), but my brother who trucked the lathe for me used the Roll-A-Lifts to get the Monarch up onto his trailer. He left them with me for the move to the basement.

I would have had to build a skid to go under the lathe with timbers running the length of it for the rollers, then remove the pallet currently under the lathe and get the new skid under it. Not an insurmountable problem, but the lathe has to be turned 90 degrees 3 times during the move, and I wasn't clear on how to do that with pipes on timbers. All the postings I found on the subject had concrete to roll on. I did purchase a length of 2" diameter pipe for a backup in case the current plan fails.

I made a turntable out of 2" pipe flanges and use the wheels to steady the lathe during the pivot. It takes forever to get everything in place and level!

Walt

- - - Updated - - -

Remember to keep your jack release close at hand in case you get a runaway you can just lower the back end to the ground.:tiphat:
Yes!!!

Walt
 

Cal Haines

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#9
Walt,

I'm just curious, did you have room to get a truck and trailer or a flat-bed wrecker around to the basement door? $50 to have a wrecker pick the lathe up and drop it around back would be a fairly typical charge. A Bil-Jax type trailer with a lowering deck makes moving machines sooooo much easier.
http://www.biljax.com/products/et-7000/

Cal
 

Walt

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#10
Walt,

Glad to see that you have the machine! I was following the thread about it over at PM. I'll be more than happy to help you get the drive running again. I have a 1943 motor/generator 10EE.

I love the roll-a-lifts. Are you renting them?

Cal
Hi Cal,

Thanks much for your kind offer of help. I've been reading as many posts on the Monarch as I can and your name keeps coming up, it's wonderful that you do so much to share your knowledge.

I'm in way over my head on the motor-generator. It seems like the next logical step after getting the lathe in place is to start building a rotary phase converter, but I may be missing a step or more. Any comments on what needs to be checked before connecting electricity? I saw a table of resistance checks in a post at PM for trouble shooting the M-G set, maybe I should start there?

The Roll-A-Lifts are on loan courtesy of my brother. I spent hours looking on-line for a place to rent them and came up empty. I'm hoping to get them back to him very soon and not make him regret his generosity. If I need to move the lathe after it's in my shop, a pallet jack or pipes will do the job (I hope!)

Walt
 

Cal Haines

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#11
Resistance checks on the AC section of the MG would be a good place to start. Do you know how to use a VOM?

Check the RPC panels at WNY (http://wnysupply.com/) before you try to roll your own RPC. I don't think you can save enough money to make it worth the time/hassle.

Do you know if the machine was running from the MG at its last permanent location? (I know that it's passed through a couple of hands since.)

Cal
 

Walt

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#12
Walt,

I'm just curious, did you have room to get a truck and trailer or a flat-bed wrecker around to the basement door? $50 to have a wrecker pick the lathe up and drop it around back would be a fairly typical charge. A Bil-Jax type trailer with a lowering deck makes moving machines sooooo much easier.
http://www.biljax.com/products/et-7000/

Cal
Hi Cal,

I have no road access to the back of my house where the basement-level door is located. There is a large tree directly across the concrete stoop from the door, a rather steep slope to the left, and more trees + slope to the right. In retrospect though, I should have approached my neighbor to let me drive across his lawn. Hard to say if his wife would have allowed it, but I never asked.

There is a place nearby that rents a trailer with a hydraulic deck. When I called it was reserved for the next 3 weekends. That would have been much safer!

Walt
 

Walt

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#13
Resistance checks on the AC section of the MG would be a good place to start. Do you know how to use a VOM?

Check the RPC panels at WNY (http://wnysupply.com/) before you try to roll your own RPC. I don't think you can save enough money to make it worth the time/hassle.

Do you know if the machine was running from the MG at its last permanent location? (I know that it's passed through a couple of hands since.)

Cal
Thanks for the link, I will check it out. It would be nice to buy some expertise in the electrical supply project and save my efforts for the lathe itself. As it is I will have to run a power cable for the 220 line and probably replace the 20A breaker pair with at least a 30 A pair. Edit/ The panels are for 3-hp, 10-hp, and larger. Can I start a 10-hp motor on a 30 A circuit? I'm not clear on the requirements. I have 100A service. /Edit

2nd Edit/ Ahh, I found a 7.5 hp panel in the Gold series /2nd Edit

I own an inexpensive Radio Shack volt-ohm meter and have used it to assemble low-voltage DC components for a LED light. I've done some very basic house wiring and know that it's important not to reverse the hot and neutral lines.

It seems likely the lathe has not been run for a long time. The previous owner said he did not have it running, and he said it was in storage when he bought it. I think at some point someone tried to run the DC motor directly from a DC power supply. There's a strange box tucked into a compartment in the back of the lathe with a cheap Dymo plastic strip label on it for "110v DC out". Clearly not original equipment. Sorry for the low resolution photo.

DC Power Supply.jpg

The previous owner said he had an electrician come out and inspect it. The electrician told the PO that the brushes are in good shape.

I hope to complete the move into my basement within a week and will post photos of the electrical parts.

Walt

DC Power Supply.jpg
 

Cal Haines

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#14
Thanks for the link, I will check it out. It would be nice to buy some expertise in the electrical supply project and save my efforts for the lathe itself. As it is I will have to run a power cable for the 220 line and probably replace the 20A breaker pair with at least a 30 A pair. Edit/ The panels are for 3-hp, 10-hp, and larger. Can I start a 10-hp motor on a 30 A circuit? I'm not clear on the requirements. I have 100A service. /Edit

2nd Edit/ Ahh, I found a 7.5 hp panel in the Gold series /2nd Edit

...
Hi Walt,

A RPC with a 7.5HP idler motor on a 30A circuit, minimum #10 wire, is more than enough for a 10EE. If you go with a 10HP idler motor you'll need a heavier circuit (40A, minimum #8 wire). That's overkill unless your planning to run something bigger than a 10EE down the road. A 7.5HP idler will easily handle machines up to about 4HP. A 10EE draws about 6HP at full power, but it doesn't start under load, so you don't need a 10 to 15HP RPC (as some would have you believe). There are lots of 10EEs running very happily from 7.5HP RPCs.

How far will the RPC and the lathe be located from the breaker panel? (It's best to put the RPC near the breaker panel if you can.)

WNY does have a 7.5 HP panel in their standard series for $161. You have to scroll down to the bottom of the page:
http://www.wnysupply.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/25258/subcatid/0/id/328115

You can save some money by purchasing a kit for $75. You have to find your own enclosure and wire it up. Some guys use and old PC case as a cheap enclosure.
http://www.wnysupply.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/25260/subcatid/0/id/328281

From what I can tell the only difference between their standard and gold series panels is the number of run capacitors. They add two more capacitors (possibly two pairs of capacitors) to the circuit for better balance. That's definitely not worth the extra money, in my humble opinion. You can add additional run caps on your own and save the $75+.

And just for the record, I have no connection to WNY. They just seem to have a well engineered product at a reasonable price and people that I know who've bought from them have been happy.

Cal
 

eightball

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#15
Congrats on your lathe. I personally think that monarchs are the most user friendly lathe there is. But i havent used them all so maybe im biased. We have a cw(i think) at work that is 16 x54. it is an old 2nd world war lathe and even though it has its little quirks, i still prefer to thread and cut tapers on it above the more modern lathes. I begged my superiors to have it rebuilt but its just cheaper to buy the disposible stuff they sell nowdays. If they ever decide to part with the old beast I am sure ill have the highest bid on it. I cut my teeth on that lathe.
 

Walt

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#16
I haven't updated this thread for a while. Here's where things stand.

I got the lathe into my basement workshop last weekend, then let it sit while I recuperated. It was a lot of work getting it there. I started turning it to get it into position last night, but had to stop at about 70 degrees out of the needed 180 degree turn because trailing wheels on the Roll-A-Lifts would not pivot.

After fighting it for over an hour I realized the problem was in re-attaching the Roll-A-Lifts, I didn't get the trailing end unit plumb against the end of the lathe. It's only out of plumb by a couple of inches, but it's simply impossible to make the wheels pivot correctly. It's the grocery cart from hell! Should be easy to fix tonight.

The other issue I'm up against is I've temporarily run low on money. Just before I found the Monarch, I had ordered a new mill! My cash reserves are at the point where I don't feel comfortable spending more money on a hobby. The rotary phase converter is going to have to wait a few weeks at least.

Walt

Edit/ The Monarch coming through my basement door. BTW, I hired a wrecker to drive the lathe around to my back door. /Edit
Monarch Moving Through Door.jpg

Monarch Moving Through Door.jpg
 
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8ntsane

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#18
Walt

Atleast you got the lathe, got it home, and in the basement. If you have to take a break before getting started on the RPC, its all good. With a new mill on the way, you must have your hands full.

Congrats on the new machines :thumbzup:
 

Ulma Doctor

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#19
Hi Walt!
that is a beautiful lathe:drool:
i had read that you were interested in building a 7.5 hp RPC unit.
If you already have a motor to use as an idler, i can show you how to do wire it up easily and very inexpensively, less than $100.
I have built many RPC's and got pretty good at it. My first RPC is still in operation from 15 years ago, it gets used 2-3 hrs daily M-F.
I can also instruct you on how to balance your newly constructed RPC as well.
It's not very hard, if you have basic electrical knowledge you'll have no problems.
Send me a PM, if you need any assistance.
I'm happy to help out...

mike:))
 

Walt

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#20
A follow up on an old thread.

I've purchased and installed a rotary phase converter to power the 10EE.

With Cal Haines' help I'm working through the wiring. We've found the exciter is completely missing! Fortunately it can be replaced with a home-built, externally powered DC-power supply. Haven't gotten that far yet.

It appears that someone replaced the 230V DC control panel with a 115V one. Again, this isn't a huge problem.

On the plus side, we've established the motor-generator is functional. It appears the DC drive motor is good too. I'll be performing a live test very soon to nail that down.

Commutator.jpg

In the meantime, I just made a pin to connect the DC motor gear box shift linkage to the front panel control lever. It's not perfect, but the pin is a solid repair that will out last me.

Gear Box Shift Lever Pin.jpg

Gear Box Shift Lever Pin Repair.jpg

I will replace the bits of wire with cotter pins as soon as the local roads are passable.

Walt

Gear Box Shift Lever Pin.jpg Gear Box Shift Lever Pin Repair.jpg Commutator.jpg
 
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stevecmo

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#21
Walt,

Glad to hear you're making some progress! I assume you've got the lathe up and running.

Steve
 

Chiptosser

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#23
Just some useless trivia, In 1972 the company that I work for, bought a new 10EE.
The new price at that time, with accessories, both steady rests, coolant pump, face plates, Taper attachment, rocker post and holders, Collet chuck and collets, was over 7,000 dollars. I may have missed something there. Yes, we still have the reciept. This is a long bed,.
In 1996 we bought a new, short bed, at the paltry sum of 86,000 dollars.
Around 15 years ago we had the original machine refitted with a new VFD, retained the motor and original motor. Talk about a soaking! We did not have this done by Monarch. At the time we thought they were too expensive ---live and learn. That cost us, in the end about 20,000 dollars.
Last year I got a quote from monarch for a (Newly) refurbished machine. As they are not making new castings for machines, just rebuilding current existing machines, and suppling parts for repair. The new price-------106,000---"jawdrop: Yea. thats right!
 

vettebob

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#24
I have a exciter I can part with. It appears to have been recently rebuilt. My DC motor was bad so I haven't used it. Bob
 

solo

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#25
I just wanted to pipe in and say nice find. I grew up in Ohio, and was in vocational school in Piqua back in 78-79. We took a class tour of the Monarch plant. Lots of large machines scraping the ways, and the floor was wood 4 x 4"s on end. (I remember a few patch jobs on the floor) After being on concrete all these years, that floor seems pretty nice now. Also nobody was smiling.....Geezee..Probably didn't like a bunch of teenage brats coming through their shop?
Sorry to see them closed. I'm running a 16" at work now. 62 years old and still works great. The lathe that is! I'm not quite there yet.
 
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