1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

Monarch 10ee

Discussion in 'MONARCH MACHINE TOOL CO.' started by MattM, Jul 31, 2016.

  1. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Looking to buy one, prices all over the place. What's a good deal? Or should I forget about it and buy something else?

    I have a Clausing Colchester 12x36 but I want something more "precision". Not that I need it's just that I want it. I have a friend who wants the Clausing and will give me a fair price.
     
  2. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

  3. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    This is a scam. I answered this ad. The machine is on the east coast and the guy wants me to pay up front by check before shipment even though the ad says free shipping and COD. He won't even give me his name or address of his business. I doubt he owns the machine.

    I have been going back and forth with him by phone and email. He will not take credit cards or Pay-Pal. I looked up reviews and they are nasty.

    I suggest someone else contact him and see how it goes. He will tell you he has 2-3 other people interested and you better hurry to get this great deal. This guy doesn't even speak or write decent English. Definitely a scammer. But I do suggest others contact him and report back.

    Whatever you do do not send money.
     
    JimDawson likes this.
  4. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks for the heads up on that one. Maybe I'll contact him using a throwaway email address.

    There were 2 in the McMinnville area for about $7500 for the pair, but I haven't seen them come up for awhile. Were on Craigslist for the last year or so, on and off.
     
  5. westsailpat

    westsailpat United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    SoCal
    City:
    long beach
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    In the early 80's we had a few of these in the shop when I worked for Rockwell . They were nice , down side was they had complicated electronics . Like vacuum tubes and stuff .
     
  6. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    The one(s) I'm looking at have that old vacuum tube stuff replaced with modern VFD's. Problem is they tend to be very expensive.
     
    westsailpat likes this.
  7. kram0390

    kram0390 Netherlands Swarf Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    City:
    Enschede
    State:
    Outside US / Canada

    -Return to Top-

    Arent there any other precision machines with same capabilities?
    I don't know if there are swiss machines available at that side of the pond? Or german?
    Schaublin, weiler and such brands.
    Maybe TOS SUI32 perhaps?
     
  8. Doubleeboy

    Doubleeboy Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Eugene
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    having looked at dozens of 10ees and owning a WiaD machine for 13 plus years, its my experience that most of the converted machines are a sad replica of the original, frequently they have had back gear taken out, have poor low end power, do not have the smooth speed control of the original tube or motor generator set up. If its a conversion done by Monarch different story, but they put huge motors in to make up for loss of back gear and were very expensive retrofits.

    If you are afraid of the tube machines get an older motor generator machine , most any elevator shop should have someone who could work on motor or generator if you have problems. If youa re into doublee Practical Machinist monarch board is where the info on repair is.

    michael
     
  9. eedriz

    eedriz Reserved Swarf Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    City:
    Tracy
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Am nw here friend
     
  10. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Thinking on buying this one:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/181919707101?ul_noapp=true

    I talked with the owner who seems to be truthful and honorable and I believe the machine to be as represented.

    Problem is it is 1,700 miles distant so I cannot examine it. I would hate to have it arrive on my doorstep and find it not good.

    Suggestions and advice?
     
  11. Eddyde

    Eddyde Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    401
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Brooklyn
    State:
    New York

    -Return to Top-

    That's a tough call. Personally, I would find it hard to spend that kind of dough for a machine without personally inspecting it. However, if it is what you really want, are comfortable with the price and feel the seller is being truthful it may be a good deal. I would ask many questions, particularly about the drive upgrade.
     
  12. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Tucson
    State:
    Arizona

    -Return to Top-

    I would check freight and shipping, it could be significant. I also do not follow the weight as being listed as 2500lb, other listings/brochure for this model are closer to 3500lb. I would be hesitant to pay that much for a machine and not be able to evaluate it up front, but the description seems reasonable and fair. There is another 10EE for much less that seems to be in good working order at 1/2 the price and make an offer. At the asking price or less, I would have less reservations about buying it site unseen. A little elbow work and some paint and looks like it would be a very nice machine. It appears to be a newer model, comes with a taper turning attachment and I believe it has an electronic leadscrew reverse on this one.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monarch-10ee-/201665856506

    Other options if I where to spend close to 10K or more with shipping would be something new like an ERL-1340, RML-1440, or PM1440GT. These models are branded under different names, all of these are precision machines and have a wider working envelope. There are also the Grizzly/SB models, the latter are at 50% off. These look to be rebranded ERL and RML machines.
    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/erl-1340.39331/
    http://www.kentusa.com/lathes-2/manual-precision-series/rml-1440vt-manual-precision-lathe/
    http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1660G.html
    http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-1440GTLathe.html
    http://www.grizzly.com/products/14-x-40-Lathe-220V/SB1012?utm_campaign=zPage
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 11, 2016
  13. Doubleeboy

    Doubleeboy Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Eugene
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    with all do respect. There is no comparison between a budget Asian machine with gear head and a belt driven Ultra High Precision machine like a 10ee or HLVH. Factory spec on 10ee is 6 inch length stock turned between centers, variation in turned diameter < .00005" with hi grade surface finish, good luck hitting half a tenth with good surface finish with a Taiwanese machine weighing half as much and having gear head. These are high precision machines thru and thru, not just on the name plate decal. I own Griz 1640 RML type machine, not bad, but for 15K its not even close to being in the same league as my well worn 60 year old 10ee. There is a reason Monarch can sell rebuilt machines for the prices they do. They are real deal. If threading is your passion maybe get a HLVH instead, but for a general purpose High precision machine 10ee is hard to beat. If you are really interested in 10ee you need to spend some time operating one, if its in good shape and you can get along with its envelope and operating behavior I think you would find it not to be comparable to a gear head lathe made to a price point. I use my Grizzly lathe a lot, but if I want to nail a piece to a tight tolerance its the 10ee. The EE is a joy to operate, everything moves like it was built by Mercedes or BMW. Everything on the Griz moves like it was made by Ford if you get my drift.

    michael
     
  14. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

     
  15. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    That is my exact impression after doing much on the line research and talking with several oldtime retired machinists, one with more than 60 years in the biz
     
  16. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Road trip :grin:
     
    MARVIN GARDENS and PaPa_Jack like this.
  17. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    That's a least four days on the road and one day there. I have a nice big Tundra that could haul it, but by the time you add up the gas and good motels and restaurants (the Wife don't do Motel 6 and Applebees) I'm bucks ahead hiring a trucking company.
     
    JimDawson and PaPa_Jack like this.
  18. Doubleeboy

    Doubleeboy Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Eugene
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    If you decide to buy it and hire the moving contact me for some thoughts on not ruining a 10ee while moving. The machine should be picked up by fork lift from back side only, but it needs to be blocked with substantial timber spacers to protect taper attachment. Do not let anyone tell you its okay to pick up by spindle, its not, there are only 2 bearings on spindle, put several thousand pounds of pressure on them in wrong direction, you will no longer get surface finish you are paying for. Fork lift or sling on eyebolt mounted to bed infront of spindle about 1 foot, its in the manual. If picked up by fork lift, block it and strap it before moving lift, if the rigger wont do it right and guarantee no damage get a better rigger. If its a tube model, you want to slide out the WiaD, remove tubes, slide WiaD back in and secure. lathe with taper and closer, and the very large 3 hp motor weights 3250 lbs. The 5 hp machines weight a little less, the motor generator machines about the same. You want a 5000 lb fork lift with long forks, good brakes , side shift and triple mast if you are going to get it in a garage with 8 foot doors, 7 foot doors, you likely will not be able to drive in door. One final thought, make sure lathe has back gear still installed and working. Unless its a Monarch retro fit with 7 to 10 hp, they have no low end torque or speed without back gear. My machine will turn 8 rpm and take everyone reading this and throw them across room before stalling, with out back gear anything less than 200 rpm is pretty worthless unless its the Monarch retro fit.

    any questions message me
    michael
     
    MattM and JimDawson like this.
  19. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Thank you. I am going to print this and discuss it with the seller, if I decide to buy.
     
  20. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Once delivered can I use a pallet jack to move it off the liftgate and into my shop (same level as the driveway)?
     
  21. Doubleeboy

    Doubleeboy Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Eugene
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Questions to ask, why asre they selling, who ran it, did that person run it exclusively, what year is it, if tubes have they replaced the C16J s, they last a very long time, mine are over 4o years old, but they cost like stink, and if the tubes are very old or machine will not hit top rpm and stay steady with good stability under load, you either have a misadjusted set up and or more likely old and tired tubes. Not the end of world, but when some rummy says excellent condition and the 3000 rpm machine will only hit 2200 and still be stable you know they are bs ing or don't know their head from their bottom. Does it have original steady, faceplate, follow rest, cumulative cross slide dial, ELS, taper, knock out bar, nose cone for 5c or 2J collets, collet closer. Is it a 3 hp or 5 hp machine, round dial, or square dial, old height or new height, is the tailstock the correct size for machine they get lost and replaced. A machine from the 80s that is dead stock and metric, english with all the goodies could easily go 30K. A round dial machine clapped out with little extras could go for scrap. As an example my half way decent tooled 1956 WiaD 3 hp machine with taper attachment and collet closer, faceplate, 2 chucks, nose piece cost me 5K delivered. If my machine had fewer hours on it and less wear I think it could have brought more. I would not buy a high precision antique with out being able to use it first unless the person was an acknowledged expert on all things ee and I only know a very few of those, most of em hang periodically on the Monarch board at PM, there are a couple others.

    I know that some machine shops won't buy an EE, they go Hardinge or Sharp exclusively. At one time Raytheon had nothing but MG EEs for precision, their tech liked the motor generator models, which are now all over 50 years old closer to 60 or more actually. As of 2000 Raytheon was still running them.

    I spent 2 years looking at lots of machines, several air flights, long drives, most every machine was misrepresented either intentionally or by lack of knowledge. Its going to be up to you to determine if its a good machine. If I had it to do over I would have kept looking but that said I love my machine and do not regret it, but in 13 years or so, I have been down maybe 4 or 5 months, trying to figure out what 50 year old piece of wire, or contact or resistor had gone intermittent or bad. BTW there are different rpm machines, its all in the pulley size, tach top rpm will tell you what it should do.

    cheers
    michael
     
  22. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks again. I had a long conversation with the owner. He used to run this machine and (naturally) speaks very highly of it. When the bottom dropped out of the coal industry in Colorado the company went under and he bought some of the machinery which he is now selling.

    He seemed honest and forthcoming but in the final analysis any long distance deal with an unknown party is a crapshoot. Worst case: if it is junk I could probably part it out and get at least some money back.
     
  23. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Tucson
    State:
    Arizona

    -Return to Top-

    When I was looking for lathes, I briefly considered a 10EE, and would love to have one. They where stat of the art in there time and are fantastic machines, and yes there is no comparison to a machine that lists at 10K new. But, the 10EE in decent condition were 15-25K when I looked a while back and most machinists I spoke to felt they where overpriced. Get one for less, well plan on spending some time working on it, and parts can be very expensive. You may get lucky, but most likely not. My point is not which is better, but to answer the question of what are reasonable options given the budget, that it is site unseen, and the extensive potential issues and problems that you have pointed out could and most likely will be an issue with this type of machine. As a hobbyist I can consistently squeeze 0.0005" out of my "Taiwanese" machine, do I need to go an order of magnitude better, not really. Do I need a mirror finish on a cut, no. If that is what you are seeking then maybe you should consider something like a 618EVS for 15K, otherwise you may need to put considerable research, effort and money into your 10EE search.
    http://www.grizzly.com/products/Super-Precision-EVS-Threading-Collet-Lathe/SB1008
     
    wrmiller likes this.
  24. AlbertNakaji

    AlbertNakaji United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Papaikou
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    Help me to understand this: The link goes to a machine listed on Ebay. Price is $8,200 + $63.40 for shipping via USPS Priority Mail. How would this be sent via USPS Priority Mail, and how would shipping cost only $63.40?

     
  25. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    That was my first question to the seller. He said it was an artifact that ebay would not him let omit. He stated and it is stated that all costs of transport will be paid by the buyer. Read the entire ad and you will see he clearly states shipping parameters.
     
  26. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

  27. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Thank you, that certainly is worth looking at since it is only three hours away. Looks a little rough but at that price could be doable.
     
  28. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Talked with the owner. This a "project machine" and he has another older 10EE that is "almost" in running condition. You can buy both for $7.500.00 but I'm not interested. Could be a good deal for someone; finish them both sell one and come out with a "free" 10EE.

    That is what he planned to do then other life forces took over...
     
  29. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    If I needed another project I would go buy them. I don't think I could even get them in my shop right now, need to get some other project done first.
     
    sgisler and Eddyde like this.
  30. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Grants Pass
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Sorta the way I feel. We are planning on selling and moving and I don't need another 6 to 8k pounds of iron to move. But if I was fully ensconced in a new shop I would be interested.
     

Share This Page