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Models for grinding HSS Lathe Tools

Z2V

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You didn't waste any time jumping right in. Looks good!
 

Ken from ontario

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Other things i discovered while grinding the 3 sample tools - -
1) the platen on my belt grinder is not rigid enough.
2) Belt grinder motor is a wimp - it's 30 years old & from harbor freight
3) Table is definitely not rigid enough - flexes down from left to right under pressure (is
only held on left side by one bolt.
4) No easy, accurate & repeatable way to place angles on table

So, basically, belt sander is crap - - good for general roughing & / or wood sanding in garage. OH BOY, VALID EXCUSE TO BUY A NEW TOOL!!

I'm also convinced you need a new grinder;).
 

tweinke

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Received the models today at noon in the mail, looked at them ate lunch, then had to go back to work. :cry: Will have time to try tomorrow to grind my own unless the wife goes to bed early then tonight is the night! Thoughts of sleeping pills come to mind though, not for me but someone else. :devil: Cant wait to try but I really need to finish the rush project I started yesterday for a coworker or maybe not, :cool:
 

mikey

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OK all, I just received Mikey's model tool in the mail (Monday @ 12:00 noon Calif. time). Started to run right out to the garage when wife grabbed me by the ear and said "eat lunch first because I know I won't see you till after dinner time". So, dutifully obeying - I choked down lunch and THEN ran out to the garage!

Note - I'm a complete newbie on lathe tool grinding!

First thing I did was to cut and pasted all of Mikey's write-ups into one single MS Word document (all 23 pages of write ups! Hell of a task and job well done by Mikey, I might add!). Printed it out and into the garage I went. Started with the basic RH cutting tool. Followed the instructions step - by - step and compared my tool to the Sample Tool. It was amazing, even on my old rickety belt sander it took less than 20 minutes to grind. And, this is with me going from 36 grit, to polish with 80, and then just for S%its & Giggle's 220 grit. finished off with honing it. IT CAME OUT GREAT!!!!! and the bloody thing is SHARP!

Apparently, for me at least, what has been missing was a simple step - by - step walk thru to make it clear and easy to do!

Other things i discovered while grinding the 3 sample tools - -
1) the platen on my belt grinder is not rigid enough.
2) Belt grinder motor is a wimp - it's 30 years old & from harbor freight
3) Table is definitely not rigid enough - flexes down from left to right under pressure (is
only held on left side by one bolt.
4) No easy, accurate & repeatable way to place angles on table

So, basically, belt sander is crap - - good for general roughing & / or wood sanding in garage. OH BOY, VALID EXCUSE TO BUY A NEW TOOL!!

Attached is a photo of the tool model (bright shiny tool on right) and my grind (dull color on left). Note: I had not put the slight rounding of the nose on my tool when this photo was taken.

View attachment 242582

A final note - - after grinding the 3 samples tools in key stock - I duplicated this RH tool in a cheap Chicom metal HSS tool blank I had laying around. Put it in the tool holder in my Sherline lathe & started making cuts I never would have thought possible on this small lathe.

THANK YOU MIKEY FOR TAKING THE TIME & PUTTING IN THE EFFORT TO HELP US NEWBIE'S LEARN & GROW IN THIS HOBBY! (and yes, I did blame you for needing the new belt sander when I told the wife!)

Dave Harris

ps, It's now 2:30 Calif. time & I'm prepping the 3 sample tools to send up to Canada tomorrow! So, in roughly 2 hours I cut the 3 sample tools, one HSS tool and made some cuts!
Glad you got the models done without too much trouble, Dave. Your tool came out really nice so obviously something is clicking for you guys here. Is it the model or the description or both? In the past, I've tried to make it simple but failed so something we're doing is different. Anyway, congratulations, Sir!

23 pages? Not from this thread, right? Actually, it takes a lot of words to convey understanding. Would that I could just talk to you guys and show you first hand but that isn't going to happen so this is the next best thing.

Anyway, now you know how easy it is to grind a tool. Now you need to try making some material-specific tools and then you'll be on your way.

Good for you, Dave. Now we have you, Jeff and Tom grinding better tools. That's a win in my book.
 

tweinke

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Ground all three models in keystock because all I have on hand is Stellite or mo-max bits. Belt grinder needs new belts after the last project and of course no one in town carries 1x42 belts. now I have samples so that's a good thing. I have ground Mikey's bits from a posting he had elsewhere but the models helped me understand better. The models are off to the next recipient as of about 30 minutes ago. Thanks Mikey!!!!
 

tweinke

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Wish we could have done that. To top it off I will be in Rochester this weekend for a wedding.
 

Z2V

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Sorry guys, I missed that you were that close together.
 

Doubleeboy

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I got the models from Mike a few days ago, they were as expected, my young friend who is starting out will get a copy that I make for him. Been grinding tools a long time, but seeing Mike's first hand was helpful. Anyone who wants to learn how to grind HSS would be well advised to take part in this generous offer to have the tools for a few days for the cost of shipping.

michael
 

mikey

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I got the models from Mike a few days ago, they were as expected, my young friend who is starting out will get a copy that I make for him. Been grinding tools a long time, but seeing Mike's first hand was helpful. Anyone who wants to learn how to grind HSS would be well advised to take part in this generous offer to have the tools for a few days for the cost of shipping.

michael
Thanks, Mike. With your guidance, he'll be an Ace in no time!
 

mikey

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Bonehead just left my house - came over for a visit, which means his wife allowed him to go out in public; this is a rare thing because he is ugly enough to frighten women and small children. He doesn't own a computer and only has a dumb phone so if he wants to see something on the net, he comes here. Anyway, he actually read this entire thread after I showed him how to scroll with the mouse wheel and he said that while I mentioned the push block a few times, he felt it is important enough to make an issue of it.

Bonehead doesn't just use the block to apply force into the belt. He steers the tool with it and he feels it is a key to grinding accurately, especially if you're a newbie and are grinding to a line. He is adamant that only plywood will do; something about the different layers grabbing the edge of the bit better.

His physical repulsiveness aside, Bonehead is probably one of the most intelligent men I know. He only has a high school education but he is an amazing engineer, the best I've ever seen. He grinds tool bits that are works of art and hones them to a mirror finish so despite the fact that he is coarser than a 24 grit belt in his speech, he does know what he's talking about. You might want to listen to him.

His parting shots to me: " You're too wordy and repetitious, and you write like a girl. "

Le Sigh ...
 

mikey

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Get Bonehead on the forum.
I tried, I honestly did. I even offered to buy him a laptop. I swear, he just looked at me like I smelled bad and said, "NO!". When Bonehead says no, nothing on this earth will change his mind. I even appealed to his wife and she literally looked alarmed. She said, "Why would you want to do that? He pisses people off just being alive!" They must have a really interesting and colorful marriage.

Bonehead once made a 3D archery target. It was a moving platform with a foam Javelina archery target mounted on it. He used a wireless remote control and could make the target turn on a dime instantly and run at realistic pig speeds. He made the whole thing (except for the electronics) with a hacksaw, files and a few screws. And this was 20 years ago. When every archer on the field complained that he cheated and turned the target just as they were ready to shoot, he said, "It's not my fault that you guys suck; get better instead of complaining."

Now you begin to understand his wife's sentiments ...
 

tennsmith

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I think it is a great idea and would be interested in getting on whatever mailing list that is formed to distribute the patterns.
 

Z2V

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tennsmith
I'll be glad to add you to the list, all I need is an address in a PM

Jeff
 

Randall Marx

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Bonehead sounds very much like me! Except for the being great at grinding lathe tool bits.
 

mikey

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Bonehead sounds very much like me! Except for the being great at grinding lathe tool bits.
I know it looks like I'm making stuff up about Bonehead but I'm being quite honest. He really exists, everything I quote is real (including his wife's statements) and he really is unfortunate-looking. A more obstinate curmudgeon is unlikely to exist but he is also the most brilliant natural engineer I have ever seen. He has been my friend, hunting and fishing partner and collaborator for almost 40 years and I know no other human who lacks as many social skills. He keeps life interesting, that's for sure.

From what I have seen, Randall, you aren't even close to being like Bonehead - you're too normal!
 

tweinke

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So just wondering, how are you guys doing with the models? For me the models and Mikey's write up together made all this angle stuff add up in my head. I had read about two years ago his write up on a different site one night and attempted his way of grinding tools and did have some success because I did end up with tools that worked, as a mater of fact I reground those tools with the models in hand and I think they work better now. I will keep those as standards and still use them but if I need or want to grind different angles I will grind new tools. A big thank you to Mikey and Jeff for there efforts to teach us because I do understand the time and effort to make this happen. :clapping:
 

ddickey

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I have them now and will make some tomorrow and over the weekend.
Yes, big thanks to them for taking time out of their schedules for this.
 

mikey

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For me the models and Mikey's write up together made all this angle stuff add up in my head; ... if I need or want to grind different angles I will grind new tools.
Todd, Duane, thank you for your kind words. This is what I had hoped to see - clarity, and the ability to make tools that do what you need them to do.
 

tweinke

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I'm sure more questions will pop up from me, Most of my work is just for repair or fun no real extreme accuracy required which has been nice because that way I set the bar as to how accurate things are. The bar is usually very high and you will never imagine how long it will take to do simple things. If the part is for someone else I always ask them for tolerances then do my best to exceed what they ask for. If they knew the quality of some of my measuring tools or the lack thereof they might think twice. I have noticed that at least on the lathe with my "new" tools accuracy seems easier to hold. As far as Bonehead goes he sounds like a good guy to know even if he is a bit hard to get along with, lucky he isn't a practical joker. Something I remember that was funny from about a year ago a friend of the family asked if I could drill a hole through a pin for him I told him sure draw me a picture with dimensions and what not and drop it off which he did promptly. Did you guys know you can drill a .750 hole through a .500 piece of shaft, I handed him a baggie full of chips the next day and he asked what that was all about. We got a big laugh when I showed him the "blueprint" he gave me and then I gave him the .750 shaft with a .500 hole.
 

mikey

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Cracked me up! I have to remember that "bag of chips" trick when someone gives me a drawing with stupid dimensions on it. Most of my friends tell me they want it exactly something and then give me measurements in 32nds of an inch. They do not speak machinist.

You guys would actually really like Bonehead. He is a no-nonsense kind of guy with a low BS-tolerance but once you get to know him he sort of grows on you ... like a fungus. Everyone who does know him well respects him, as do I.
 

tweinke

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My son who knows better and does CAD work for a living gave me a really nice set of drawings one night drawn on scrap paper with a grocery list on the other side and said make these parts. Asked what the tolerance level was he replied +or- 1/4 inch I'll make them fit. Parts were plates to tie construction lumber together for a hog barn repair. Honestly that's even a bit loose tolerance wise for me
 

q20v

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Hey guys,

Just got the tool bits in the mail today. I picked up some key stock last week and the grinder is ready to go, so I'll get started on my copies soon and have them out on Tuesday (Monday is Thanksgiving).

Dave, thanks for volunteering to send them up north! It is greatly appreciated.

I'll post pics up once I get some grinding done.

Mike's grind:
IMG_20171006_134448.jpg

Barry
 

Z2V

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Glad to hear that you received them
 
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