Mill Search

[BGHansen]

I started with a new Grizzly Rong Fu clone 35 years ago, paid around $1400 for it with power feed (similar to the current G0760). Upgraded to a used Jet JVM-830 knee mill about 30 years ago (similar to a Grizzly G0731 mill) for around $1500 as I recall. Sold the Grizzly for $1000. Upgraded the Jet with a 4-axis DRO for around $500 from TPACtools.com. I could probably get my original $1500 out of it as it currently sets.

A couple of months ago I bought a 1981 2HP Bridgeport Series 1 with a circa 1985 Anilam Crusader II 2-axis CNC control for $4000. Mill is in fantastic shape, and the CNC is pretty simple to learn (like Ted's EZ Trak). I didn't buy the mill because of the CNC, I bought it because of the quiet variable speed head, table with scraping still visible, Kurt swivel vise, phase converter, etc. The CNC has been great! As Ted mentioned above, I can't imagine putting my rotary table back on the mill as the CW and CCW arc routines are so simple to use. I'd never used or seen CNC in action before; it's totally changing how I do things (albeit only 2-axis at this point).

I guess the point being, if you buy something new and decide to upgrade at some point, you'll get a good chunk of your money back if you decide to sell. If you buy used and don't abuse the mill, you'll get out of it what you put into it. I you get something with more features that you intended to have, you'll use them. I don't think CNC is a "gotta have", but it's sure nice!

I use simple air for my chip control (if at all). Have a magnetic based segmented hose with a ball-valve for volume control. The ways are covered so I'm not burying swarf where it shouldn't go. I'm only 2-axis so I end up sitting in front of the mill anyhow. Brush chips off after a pass, then re-run the routine.

Good luck with your search!

Bruce

 

[ACHiPo]

Evan,
Yes, my mill is a full size Bridgeport and the EZ Trak was Bridgeport's CNC system for a period of time in the 1990's, so the mill was built by BP with CNC. The main point I was trying to make is that if you're not using the CNC on a regular basis, your memory has to be a lot better than mine (which isn't saying much ) to be somewhat proficient at writing programming. That's why I like a CNC with a lot of basic "canned" functions that you don't have to write a program to do.

I typically machine dry. Once in a while I'll use WD-40 on aluminum. I usually use carbide tooling for machining steel and HSS for machining aluminum. On my lathe I do have flood coolant (although I do not use a water based coolant, I use Mobil 766 cutting oil).

I don't think we've met. I've just read your posts on two of the Cobra forums.

Ted

Ted,
I must have you confused with another Ted (red/white Superformance 427) from the Sacramento area that joined our run to Paso Robles last May. Just came from our weekly Cobra Club breakfast--fun to get together and bench race.

One of the things that "flipped my bit" regarding CNC was the demo I saw of the Tormach 440. While the 440 is too small for me, I was impressed by the intuitive controls and the ability to run default CAM programs without needed 3-D CAD input. Seems really user friendly. Programming CNCs are pretty intimidating.

It's good to hear that you machine dry or with a manageable amount of fluid. The thought of spraying water soluble coolant all around and the resultant mess is not something that's very attractive to me.

Evan

 

[ACHiPo]

I started with a new Grizzly Rong Fu clone 35 years ago, paid around $1400 for it with power feed (similar to the current G0760). Upgraded to a used Jet JVM-830 knee mill about 30 years ago (similar to a Grizzly G0731 mill) for around $1500 as I recall. Sold the Grizzly for $1000. Upgraded the Jet with a 4-axis DRO for around $500 from TPACtools.com. I could probably get my original $1500 out of it as it currently sets.

A couple of months ago I bought a 1981 2HP Bridgeport Series 1 with a circa 1985 Anilam Crusader II 2-axis CNC control for $4000. Mill is in fantastic shape, and the CNC is pretty simple to learn (like Ted's EZ Trak). I didn't buy the mill because of the CNC, I bought it because of the quiet variable speed head, table with scraping still visible, Kurt swivel vise, phase converter, etc. The CNC has been great! As Ted mentioned above, I can't imagine putting my rotary table back on the mill as the CW and CCW arc routines are so simple to use. I'd never used or seen CNC in action before; it's totally changing how I do things (albeit only 2-axis at this point).

I guess the point being, if you buy something new and decide to upgrade at some point, you'll get a good chunk of your money back if you decide to sell. If you buy used and don't abuse the mill, you'll get out of it what you put into it. I you get something with more features that you intended to have, you'll use them. I don't think CNC is a "gotta have", but it's sure nice!

I use simple air for my chip control (if at all). Have a magnetic based segmented hose with a ball-valve for volume control. The ways are covered so I'm not burying swarf where it shouldn't go. I'm only 2-axis so I end up sitting in front of the mill anyhow. Brush chips off after a pass, then re-run the routine.

Good luck with your search!

Bruce

Bruce,
I'm sure you'll get your money out of the Jet--I was pretty blown away at what new Jet mills go for these days--certainly not the "budget" brand I remembered from when I started in woodworking. I'm envious of your location close to Motor City--seems like there's an abundance of affordable iron (but I don't miss the summers or winters!)

The depreciation on a Tormach seems like it would be pretty negligible. I know I'd gladly pay 80% of new to get a used machine close to me. I suspect being in the Bay Area a used Tormach would be pretty attractive, so I'm not too worried about losing much money buying new (something I typically try to avoid being a cheap b$*%@rd and all.) I'm more concerned about the relatively large footprint of the 1100 (I like the larger work envelope of the large machine, just not the space it will take up in my shop). I'm trying to convince myself that, while visually larger than the PM 835, the actual floor space isn't that much bigger when you take into consideration the 22" x-travel space of the PM835. Of course the 1100 is 2x (or more depending on bells and whistles).



Evan

 

[ACHiPo]

Well my noodling continues. I called Charter Oak and emailed them--no response, so seems they're no longer in the CNC business.

I'm still intrigued with CNC, but not itching to pull the trigger soon. I've been playing with Fusion 360 and it will take me a few weeks to get proficient enough with that to actually design parts anyway. Thanks for the thoughtful discussion. I'll post an update from time to time as my journey continues.

 

[7milesup]

I am in pretty much the same boat as you ACHiPo. I have a Horror Fright bench mill but need something bigger; check that, may "want" would be the correct term. I am seriously considering one of the Precision Matthews mills, either the 932 or the 833. I want to eventually have the ability to convert it to CNC. Everyone, or least it seems like nearly everyone, says to get a Bridgeport, but like you, almost all my stuff is on some sort of wheel system and as able to be moved, maybe not real easily, but at least it is an option. I have a PM 1022 lathe that I built a stand for and it works awesome. When I get a mill, it will be ordered without a stand and I will TIG one up so it will be customized to fit my needs, specifically mobility and storage underneath the mill. I too do woodworking and have my shop seperated into woodworking and metalworking (30x32 shop size, which is too small, LOL). Not a big fan of the folks that say if it doesn't weigh a ton or more then it is not a mill, that is just draconian thinking IMHO.


Oh, also, Fusion 360 is, as you already discovered, free for use, even commercially, as long as you make less than $100k with it in your business. Also, Solidworks is free for download if you are an EAA member, so I have been working with that lately.

 

[ACHiPo]

Oh, also, Fusion 360 is, as you already discovered, free for use, even commercially, as long as you make less than $100k with it in your business. Also, Solidworks is free for download if you are an EAA member, so I have been working with that lately.

So if I join EAA for $40/year I can get a SolidWorks seat? I'd prefer to invest in learning SolidWorks since it's an industry standard, but can't justify $4k for a private seat. Fusion 360 seems ok, but given the steep learning curve I'd prefer to learn one CAD tool and stick with it.

 

[7milesup]

That is correct. Now keep in mind that this is the student version or the educational version. So what this means is that any file that you do will have a student watermark on it. Functionality wise, the student version is almost identical to the full seat version. The difference is there are a few analytical plugins that do not work on the student version but most people would not use them anyhow.
I just renewed my EAA membership and got a one year subscription to SolidWorks. So, as long as the EAA keeps renewing their agreement with SolidWorks we're good to go down the road.