Mill is 3-phase 440v, I have 1-phase 220v - What kind of options do I have?

[ScrapMetal]

I've seen plenty of talk on the VFDs and RFCs but haven't gleaned enough information to make any intelligent decisions on how to, or even if I can, find a good solution to this little dilemma.

I just purchased a Wells-Index 860C mill from a dealer up in MI and we've yet to work out the delivery but I need to start thinking about how I'm going to power it. The mill is set up for 3-phase 440v but in my little one stall garage/shop I only have 1-phase 220v (and 110v of course).

Do I have any options for VFDs/RFCs or will I need to bite the bullet and call an electrician to run another line to my humble hole? I suppose that there would also be the option of changing out the motor(s) but wouldn't that create other problems with the power feeds?

Side note: I do have electronics experience though it dates back to discrete components and hasn't been used much in the last 30 years but I've never had to deal directly with power systems, especially not the kind involved here.

So, any help or advice would be most appreciated,

Thanks,

-Ron

 

[Old Iron]

Ron you can prolly rewire the motor for 220 3 phase then go with a VFD or RPC.

I don't think you want to run 3 phase to your shop. I don't know about there byt here they wanted 1800. to run a drop to my shop and its right out side.

I'm using a RPC. but thats not for every one either. Mite be better for you to go with a VFD.

Paul

 

[Rbeckett]

Was gonna suggest an RPC, but old Iron beat me to it. Consider the cost carefully since once you get three phase power you will be able to take advantage of buying cheaper three phase machines. Just sayin, make sure you get extra capacity while your shopping around.
Bob

 

[Gary Max]

And if you go with a RPC you will be able to run several machines from it---- which means you can buy more machines.
:whistle: I have my SB-16 and a tapping machine powered from the same RPC.

 

[8ntsane]

Hey Ron

You can go a few ways really. I dont know anything about your mill, but assuming it has to separate motors. You should first think about checking prices on VFDs if thats the way you want to go.

Re wiring for 220 is some thing only a specialist would be able to tell you for sure. I have my mill, a 220/440 wired for 220
So I think you would be ok doing so, but when the machine get to you, you will be able to check deeper.

RPC is maybe your cheaper route to go, since that mill probably has 2 main drive motors, and possible coolant pump motor totaling 3

Just to give you a idea of how I have run different machines in a home shop, there is many ways to go here. My shop is the 1 car garage at home too. But that still didnt stop me from running my 600v 5hp lathe. I run it with a small transformer, 220 1 phase in, to the TF, 220>600 , into a 600v VFD then to the lathe. The transformer is single phase. I have been running this for a few yrs now, as I didnt feel like swappin the motor out to 220v.

You also can use a RPC, and 3 phase transformer. My friend has that set up at his place, seems all his stuff is every thing but 220v. So in his case the main power is 220 1 phase from the house. Feeding a RPC . THe RPC feeds a 3 phase transformer.> then out to the machine.

His RPC is used to send the power to different transformers, depending on what voltage he needs for separate machines.
So, RPC,VFD, with or without transformer is doable. As arreadt said, my mill, a 220/440 machine was rewired for 220, and currently on a VFD. The lathe is on a 220/600 transformer with a 600v Teco FM500 VFD

I hope I didnt confuse you with all this

 

[ScrapMetal]

Good information guys (and no, I'm not any more confused than when I started ) except for Gary - I'm telling my wife it's all your fault when I get more machines.

The VFD sounded like the least expensive option but upon consideration it might not be the best way to go. This mill has two main motors (I don't think it has any coolant pumps.) as well as the power feeds/drawbar and DRO although I'm not sure how those are powered.

Here's the information I do have:

Wells Index Model 860

Serial #20329

Specifications:
Table 9"x46", 3 T-slots
Dial graduations .001
Longitudinal range 32"
Cross range 10"
Vertical-knee range 16 ½"

Vertical Spindle
Quill 5"
Head tilt forward & back 45° & 45°
Head rotation, side to side 180° & 180°
Spindle nose to top of table 21 ½" max
0 min
Spindle Speeds
Vertical/Horizontal Variable speed
42 to 425 RPM back gear
412 to 4200 RPM direct drive
Spindle motor 2 Hp, variable speed
Approx dimensions 68"D x 102"W x 85"H
Approx weight 2,800 lbs
Power 440 volts

Machine is equipped with power drawbar, power feed on X & Y but has a problem on X, and Sargon 2 Axis DRO but DRO box is bad.

I was also told that this machine came from some kind of trade school to it shouldn't have seen a production environment. I didn't mind the DRO or the X-feed being buggered as I figure that saved the machine a lot of wear and tear. If it's "broke" they don't use it, right? :thinking: :biggrin:

-Ron

 

[Gary Max]

Right Ron----like she is going to believe that.
:thinking:You are going to have to come up with something better.

Adopt a machine club----save them from the scarp yards of America
Do your part to save a machine.
New key word----Green

Nahh :shrugs:

 

[Charley Davidson]

That's one massive machine"jawdrop: Your draw bar is most likely air powered.

From what I heard recently you can run a 440 3phase mashing on 220 3phase without any issues as long as you don't use all it's needed power, but I really know nothing.

 

[ScrapMetal]

Right Ron----like she is going to believe that.
:thinking:You are going to have to come up with something better.

Adopt a machine club----save them from the scarp yards of America
Do your part to save a machine.
New key word----Green

Nahh :shrugs:

Don't say Nah! I like where this is going. We can be like Shriners but with metal working machines instead of little cars. :biggrin:

That's one massive machine"jawdrop: Your draw bar is most likely air powered.

From what I heard recently you can run a 440 3phase mashing on 220 3phase without any issues as long as you don't use all it's needed power, but I really know nothing.

I wouldn't say "massive" exactly , it's a bit bigger than an average Bridgeport. Charlie, if you know "nothing" I'm pretty sure I'm ruining the bell curve on the downside. :scared: Is it possible to have a negative amount of knowledge? :biggrin:

I'll look at some of the info I have on this series of mill and see if I can get any clues on just what it's all about.

This is part of a quote I got straight from Wells-Index for a rebuilt 860C so it may have features or particulars not found on the used mill that I have purchased.

few of the features on the rebuilt Model 860C are:
A. 3HP Baldor spindle motors on both horizontal and vertical spindles.
B. Variable speed drive on both vertical and horizontal spindles.
C. Power feed on the vertical quill Available at all spindle speeds and rated for a 5/8” drill.
D. Electric Controls - includes reversing switches and all wiring.
E. One type “B” arbor support for 1.875 OD bearings.
F. A one-shot lubrication system.
G. Way covers.
H. Precision ground Acme lead screws with new acme nuts.

MODEL 860C SPECIFICATIONS

TABLE
Size Overall .......................................................... 9” x 46”

T-Slots:
Number ................................................................. 3
Size ..................................................................... 5/8”
Distance Between ................................................... 2-1/4”
Dial Graduations ..................................................... 0.001”

RANGE
Longitudinal ........................................................... 32”
Cross ................................................................... 12”
Vertical Knee ......................................................... 16-1/2”
Center of Table to Column Face - Max ........................ 19-1/2”
Center of Table to Column Face - Min ......................... 5-1/2”

VERTICAL SPINDLE
Quill Travel ............................................................ 5”
Head Tilt - Forward & Backward ................................ 45 deg.
Head Rotation - Side to Side .................................... 90 deg.
Turret Rotation on Column ....................................... 360 deg.
Spindle Nose to Top of Table - Max ........................... 21-1/2”
Spindle Nose to Top of Table - Min ............................ 0”
Center of Spindle to Column Face - Max ..................... 28-3/8”
Center of Spindle to Column Face - Min ...................... 2-3/8”
Spindle Taper (uses drawbar) ................................... R-8
Spindle Rotation .................................................... Forward and Reverse
Spindle Speeds - Infinitely Variable:
Back Gears ........................................................... 42 to 425 RPM
Direct Drive .......................................................... 412 to 4200 RPM
Spindle Motor ....................................................... 2HP
Quill Feeds (3) - Per Spindle Revolution ..................... .0015”, 0.003”, 0.006”

HORIZONTAL SPINDLE
Spindle Housing Rotation ........................................ 30 deg.
Centerline of Spindle to Top of Table - Max ................ 16-1/2”
Centerline of Spindle to Top of Table - Min ................. 0”
Spindle Taper (uses drawbar) .................................. #40MMT, with 5/8”-11 Drawbar
Spindle Rotation ................................................... Forward and Reverse
Spindle Speeds - Infinitely Variable:
Back Gear ........................................................... 42 to 425 RPM
Direct Drive ......................................................... 412 to 4200 RPM

OVERARM
Underside to Centerline of Horizontal Spindle ............. 7-7/8”
End of Spindle to Bushing in Arbor Support ................ 20-1/2”
Arbor Length Accommodated - Max ......................... 18”

FLOOR SPACE
Front to Back ...................................................... 76”
Left to Right ....................................................... 107”

HEIGHT OVERALL
With Vertical Head ............................................... 90”
Less Vertical Head ............................................... 66”

VOLTAGE Available wired for 440 volt 3 phase, 220 volt 3 phase or 220 volt single phase.
SHIPPING WEIGHT (Approximate)
with Vertical Head ...(860C)................................... 3600 lbs.

Between the Wells stuff and what the seller posted, that is the total extent of my "machine" knowledge.

-Ron

 

[Kevinb71]

Ron
I think I need to clear something up here. You definately CAN NOT run a 440V machine on 220v for an extended time without causing damage. Completely unloaded in may work a little while. Load it even a little and bad things will start to happen. I do have some good news in that a great many 440v 3ph motors and also be reconnected for 220v. I, in my other life not maching, am an electrician. If the motor is reconnectable to 220v it will say so on the motor tag. Under voltage it will say 220/440 or perhaps 230/460. Also then under the amperage it will have two listings 6.8/3.4 for a 2HP motor for example. If it shows something like this then it can be reconnected. The other motors will need to be dual voltage as well. There should also be a diagram that shows the wiring connections for each voltage. I have not seen a lot of Bridgeports so i don't know how common dual voltage is.

Now to try to give you a solution if it isn't dual voltage.

1. There are VFD's that will take your 220v 1ph power and give out 440v 3ph. I have no experience with one of these with more than one motor on the output side like your mill has. I don't see why it wouldn't work, but talk to a local motor shop for their thoughts.

2. To me the best option is as has been suggested before in this thread. Get or build an RPC. You can even take the output of the RPC to a second breaker panel that is only connected to the RPC and your machines and connect other machines to that panel. You can still only run as many machines at once as your RPC can handle, but you could have as many machines as you want running one at a time(based on RPC size) and all would have proper overcurrent protection. You would still need a transformer to correct the voltage. This can be done at each machine or feeding the panel if all "future" machines are expected to be the same voltage. This is the most difficult method electrically, but gives the most flexibility.

I think there have been many good posts in the past on benefits of RPC vs VFD etc. and I won't try to suggest either way. It really is a matter of what you think your future plans are.

I hope this helps!
Kevin