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Measuring Internal Threads

Discussion in 'METROLOGY - MEASURE, SETUP & FIT' started by Matt in TN, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. Matt in TN

    Matt in TN Active Member Active Member

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    I understand the thread measuring wire and thread micrometer method of measuring pitch diameter for external threads. How would one measure the pitch diameter on internal threads?

    If I'm trying to cut an external thread to match an internal thread as closely as possible (like a rifle barrel to an existing receiver), what's the best way?
     
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  2. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    39 views and no replies......that's odd!
    I am sure someone here has been around that block.

    I'll check a few books when I get home to see if I can find anything.

    -brino
     
  3. T Bredehoft

    T Bredehoft Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Cut until the barrel screws in with no binding. That's better than having a plug gauge.

    Short of that, make a plug that exactly matches the barrel. Use it for your plug gauge.
     
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  4. Tony Wells

    Tony Wells United States Former Vice President Staff Member Administrator

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    There is a commercial product on the market that will do exactly that. IMO, it's out of price range for the hobby shop. They claim (and the point can be argued) that they can replace plug gages. Indeed they can measure certain elements of threads that solid gages cannot. I have used them extensively and find that there are great applications for them, but in my thinking, the generally most representative of fit is an actual threaded, mating plug or ring. In a system as they are marketed, there are several components which do give it versatility and the ability to identify separately incorrect thread elements, but many can be satisfactorily controlled by other means and don't necessitate the need to inspect individually.
     
  5. Holescreek

    Holescreek Active User Active Member

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    I use the commercial gauge mentioned above regularly at work. It's an internal pitch "micrometer" (for lack of better terminology) made by Starrett and has custom made anvils for each thread pitch. It has a digital gauge and is preset while the anvils are in the thread master ring gauge.

    Traditionally, for cost savings as well as expediency internal threads are cut to an external thread master plug gauge. It's "good enough" to turn your master plug gauge on the lathe as long as it falls within the acceptable pitch diameter for it's size. If you turn a plug gauge while you're set up for your barrel you can use it for the next job too.

    Take a Mauser barrel job for example. It has a 1.1"-12 pitch internal thread (large ring Mauser). It also has 55 degree threads instead of the normal 60 degree threads but it's OK to ignore that fact. You're going to turn the major diameter to between 1.0869~1.0983" or an average of 1.093". The minor diameter of the thread in case you want to cut a relief diameter at the shoulder will be .9844~1.0081". As you're getting close to the finishing the thread you'll need to measure the pitch diameter either with a thread micrometer or using the 3 wire method. For the thread to be in spec., you need the pitch to measure between 1.0385~1.0442". It's as simple as that.
     
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  6. tertiaryjim

    tertiaryjim Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Measure the inside diameter. Invers the calculations for determining the bore size to get the OD for a mating thread.
    That should give you a good thread but if you want it real close ya gotta try the male thread in the female one or vice versa.
    If you are cutting a thread to match the spindle of your lathe it's handy to have male and female try threads to check to your fit.
    The try threads should be considered as priceless tools and put where you can't loose em.
     
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  7. Matt in TN

    Matt in TN Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks guys. I've turned threads to just barely fit and there's very little wiggle, but it just seems imprecise to guess and check and then go by feel. Not sure. I can justify that expensive tool, so I guess I'll keep practicing...
     
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  8. machinistmarty

    machinistmarty United States Manual Machinist Active Member

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    I measure the OD with wires and then make a test plug to fit the ID I am boring. With a barrel that wouldn't be necessary. You can buy plug gauges but there very expensive.
     
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  9. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have a excel program that I use for the threads I deal with in my job. It calculates the OD's, ID's to prepare the cutting the thread to as well as pitch diameters of internal and external threads. Also measurement over wires and best wire size for external threads. And last, creates dimensions to cut threads for soft gauges. It's only set up for class 2 threads. It maybe too much to for the average HSM. If interested, I'll see if I can post it in the down load section. I also have drawings that you just fill in the blanks for shop use in making gauges.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
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  10. astjp2

    astjp2 United States Active User Active Member

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    Unless you are an engineer, don't overthink it.....
     
  11. Matt in TN

    Matt in TN Active Member Active Member

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    Hahahahaha! I am an engineer (BSME) how did you know?

    My wife calls it a mental illness society has just found a way to harness. ;-)
     
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  12. astjp2

    astjp2 United States Active User Active Member

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    fixed.. Even if you are an engineer, don't over think it!
     
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  13. John Hasler

    John Hasler United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    But overthinking things is what we do.
     
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  14. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I would be interested in the spreadsheet if you don't mind sharing.
     
  15. rdhem2

    rdhem2 United States Active User Active Member

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    This might be a silly thought, or I do not understand fully what you are trying to do. Why not use the old barrel stub as your plug gauge? It fit once and worked well, shouldn't a well made copy suffice for your purposes? Who knows? You may get a in-accurate plug gauge to your receiver. Slim chance----but possible!
     
  16. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Here you go. Try to see if this will open. If you can't get it to open, I'll try to upload it in the download section.

    Here is the link in the download section.

    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/thread-program.2496/
     

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    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
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  17. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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  18. Matt in TN

    Matt in TN Active Member Active Member

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    I do the reverse of that now - I use the receiver as the gauge for the new barrel threads I'm cutting. Once I get close I test fit often and take off a thousandth or so at a time until it just twists on. It works, but I have no way to quantify what "just fits" means. As an anal-retentive engineer that bothers me, so I want to find a way to measure everything and just cut to a calculated measurement instead of all that test fitting.
     
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  19. Bill C.

    Bill C. United States Active User Active Member

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    Thanks everyone, it was been years since I cut internal threads. I always learn new tools and methods when i am here. I have used plug and ring gages in production before. Seldom used wires and micrometer method.

    I hope your threading project was successful.
     
  20. bfd

    bfd United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    do you have the old barrel just measure that. if not look up the specs of the thread in the machinery handbook and make a plug gauge to match the specs test fit it if too loose make another on slightly larger do this until it fits like you want it then thread your barrel bill
     
  21. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Or you can use my thread program to make a gage to.

    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/thread-program.2496/

    Ken
     

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