Machinist online learning? Is this a crazy idea?

HMF

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We've seen some of the great videos on YouTube.com that "TubalCain" has made.

At the same time, we have seen the demise of a few of the "old timers"- a lot of knowledge gone with them.

What about one of you experienced guys generating some videos and selling them online as "online learning"?

Is this a crazy idea?


Nelson
 
I've heard of crazier ideas. The people I'd want to see making the videos are beyond the technological side of composing and editing a video properly. You know, the really old guys who can make anything out of nothing. I know a couple, but they'd need a helping hand to bring it to presentation video quality.
 
Dalee,I got in a bunch of trouble on another forum for saying the same thing.

Trouble with the internet,you tube,and all,is that any doofus can set himself up as a teacher. The older books on machining are no doubt a more reliable source of correct information.I resent those videos,and online self proclaimed "experts" who just mislead and misdirect newbies.

There's one idiot who is now making videos who is self convinced that a LEFT hand lathe tool starts cutting from the RIGHT. This hick even thinks the MANUFACTURERS have it backwards. It did no good at all for everyone to try to correct him. Now,he's presenting himself as a teacher????? I think he's been using his lathe for about 1 1/2 years.
 
george wilson link=topic=3266.msg23483#msg23483 date=1314472674 said:
Dalee,I got in a bunch of trouble on another forum for saying the same thing.

Makes ya kinda glad yer here, huh George? ``

Nelson
 
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I read the discussion.
It's too bad the OP doesn't come here where he would get encouragement - what he's trying to do is well-intentioned and needed. I have to drive 60 miles two counties over if I want to take a basic machining class after work. Odds are, after a hard day of work, with 3 kids needing my attentions, I won't be able to do it. I wish I could!

That is why I thought of something online.
AGI does it with their DVDs, but they are expensive, Jose R. and Rudy K have videos.
They do it with clock repair- two guys have their own tape sets.
One guy in clock repair runs online classes using a web cam set up in his workshop. The technology is there, and it is easy nowadays.

Just my ramblings, and .02


Nelson
 
The kind of innate skills mentioned may still be there. The trouble is that we've learned not to use them, so we don't know we have them. Case in point - When I was taking Electronics at the local University College, the prof would rattle off some basic math sequence. Every hand would reach for a calculator. Before we even got them powered up, he would do the math out loud. I'm talking 60 divided by 12 type stuff. We all knew how to do it, but stopped thinking and started using the modern tools instead.

After a few days of this, we stopped reaching and started thinking. We never reached the prof's level of doing square roots to the 5th decimal place in our heads (out loud if you asked him), but we started to realize that we could do a lot of stuff already.

All that to say this - People can do more than they think they can. Videos on how to do a particular process would be great, if it can be put together, but, at the same time, can we try to teach people how to think like machinists. You experienced guys know what I mean. You're not limited to doing stuff you've already learned, nor do you need someone to show you a new process. You can make it up, based on what you have already done.

You newer guys, you don't need a drawing with all the dimensions laid out for you to copy. Grab a piece of paper and a pencil and start sketching. Think about how you can make that shape. Lathe or mill? Drill or saw? Make mistakes. Grow by each one. Then, brag about it. If you end up inventing the wheel, we won't jump all over you and tell you it's already been done. We enjoy your process as much as you do. Then we'll bury you with tips. We can't help it. ;D
 
I know this series of videos may be much more basic than you are talking about but they sure helped me get started.

http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/142-machine-shop-1

There is a complete set of videos there covering all but the most obscure machining operations. He doesn't get into some of the things I still have questions about, but it is a great starting place. I have been doing some of these basic operations for 20+ years and almost gaffed off the basic tool video.

I now know why 99% of tap handles have a small divot in the back of the handle.

I have learned tons from the Tubalcain videos on youtube as well.

Chris
 
I have been trying to get this message over for a few years now on the internet, the people with all the knowledge are dying off, and without their knowledge a lot of 'hands on' experience will be lost. I am desperate to empty my head of all I know before I snuff it, but it is getting harder each passing day.

It is that 'hands on' approach that needs to be saved, that is why I go into so much detail in my posts, it isn't BS, but genuine methods of usually the easiest way to do a job.

Books are OK, but modern ones can be a little long winded and too technical for the layman to understand, especially people new to machining, and having watched most of the MIT vids, I came away really disappointed with the safety and technique side of things.
But on the other hand, I do have a large collection of older machining books in PDF format, mainly from the turn of the last century to about the 1930's. Everything you ever need to know about techniques is contained within, and when I have say a holding or machining problem, a quickie read through one or two sections has my problems solved. There is nothing very new in modern day machining, just old methods brought up to date. There are a lot of old books in the public domain, and are well worth reading through.

As far as I am concerned, most of the youtube videos are from people who have had success in one thing and captured it on 'film', and then class themselves as master machinists. There are some 'greats' on there, but they are few and very far between, and a lot of those are in a foreign language that I can't understand.

I took on an 'apprentice' about 5 or 6 years ago, and taught him how to machine using no more than emails, sometimes, dozens in a day, him asking the questions, me sending back scans of my C-o-C's and lots of text. In fact, I never met him in person until two years after we started, and he was getting on for 70 by then. This is the gent I am talking about.

http://start-model-engineering.co.uk/

So that proves the internet can be used as a good teaching aid. A little out of the ordinary how we did it, but it worked.

If I was in better health, I would do exactly the same thing again.

In all honesty, I don't think what you are proposing about videos can be done easily, mainly because of the ambulance chasing leeches and the official safety brigade (sorry if I have offended anyone in that line of work).
Everything you will be trying to capture will be done by people who use methods that are usually frowned upon nowadays, I'm not talking of dangerous practices, but methods that would have modern day safety experts giving birth to a cow. I have to make sure things I post shouldn't cause a problem with regards to that side of things.

It is OK doing it in our own shops, putting it into the public domain could leave yourselves wide open to all sorts of legal battles.

I am still a great believer in a person asking me how to do something, and then inviting him into my shop for one to one instruction, once they see how it is done and how easy it usually is, the problem is solved in not time at all.
Videos and pictures only usually show one part of a procedure, when a person is standing next to you, his eyes can see each little nuance of what is happening in front of him, so most probably picks up more than ten times the information that is shown by other means.

Why not try to organise mentor sessions, where inexperienced people can travel and spend a day or a few hours in a more experienced person's shop. Previously, I have done this sort of thing, and still do occasionally. I have a personal friend now that comes over about once a month, and learns something new each time he gets into my shop, I show him how to do it on my lathe, mill or surface grinder, then I let him have a go for a time. People are willing to travel a couple of hundred miles for some critical one to one instruction, say taper turning or screwcutting. Once learned, usually never completely forgotten.


John
 
Great post and great idea. I work for a major airline and just asked the guys in one of the machine shops to show me a few things. Those guys were and still are great about sharing knowledge. Company rules say I can't run the actual machine, but I can watch as close as I want and pick up great information along the way.

Its about time I bring them another dozen donuts for helping me out.

Chris
 
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