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Loose back gear on Craftsman 109

Discussion in 'ATLAS, CRAFTSMAN & AA' started by ericc, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. ericc

    ericc United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi. I have an old Craftsman 109 lathe. When I was using back gear, the planetary mechanism came loose. It is supposed to be locked with a pin, but it tilted and came loose. It seems that it is free to slide along the spindle. There are a few washers and spacers, and I was wondering if there were any missing. I looked at the parts diagram, and it shows *NO* washers or spacers on the spindle. There is only the pulley, spider, and back gear housing. Is there something else that is supposed to hold them in place, and the previous owner just put in the washers to try to hold everything in place? Is there a detailed picture of the spindle assembly that can show this? Thanks.
     
  2. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Eric,

    There are at least 6 Craftsman models with model numbers beginning with "109". Which one do you have? AFAIK, everything ever officially published on the AA built Craftsman lathes is in DOWNLOADS. There might be somewhere a photo showing what you are asking for. But Lord knows how you would find it.
     
  3. ericc

    ericc United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi Robert. Thanks for the reply. It is 109.0703, the long bed one with the back gear and threading. There is a manual in Downloads, placed there by you. Unfortunately, it does not have the diagram. That is a good idea (looking at images). Most of them are not quite at the right view. I am starting to get suspicious that a previous owner removed or broke the collar and replaced it with washers. They are painted the same color as the lathe, but that probably doesn't mean much. What I was wondering is whether the collar presses against the pulleys or the rear headstock bearing. That back gear is pretty shaky.
     
  4. clif

    clif United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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  5. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Eric,

    I don't know as I don't have the parts to compare to the 109.0702 upgrade installation instructions. I just improved the copy of the instructions that I found somewhere and updated the copy in our DOWNLOADS. Read through that while doing it and I think you will find your answer. The copy is not great but I cleaned it up somewhat, as much as I could in the time available. If there are any words that you can't decypher, let me know.

    And looking at the photos on Lathes UK that Clif mentioned might help,. too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  6. ericc

    ericc United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi clif. My spindle arrangement looks almost nothing like what is in the first link. That photo has two collars. At least what they call the annular gear is loose, so mine isn't broken. Maybe it just needs a few collars. Hmm. Looks like it is time to get out the cone mandrel.
     
  7. ericc

    ericc United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi Robert. I saw your documents. Thanks. They show a collar in back of the pulley. I don't have a collar on mine. The retrofit instructions show a single screw collar which bears on a flat, and the main manual with a diagram shows a 2 screw collar with 8-32 x 5/8" screws. There is a washer that is added with the retrofit, I guess to keep the bell from rubbing against the front of the headstock.
     
  8. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Maybe someone with a 109.0703 could give you the collar dimensions.
     
  9. ericc

    ericc United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi Robert. That would require some good luck. I had a chance to go and look at a friend's 109. It is the more conventional short bed version. His has a rear collar. He also has a front nut which has pin wrench holes in it. Both these features are just like the manual shows. My lathe has a washer in front (the one shown in the retrofit document). It also has a washer in back, but if the washer is removed, there will be no room for a similar collar! It appears that my headstock is shorter and the pulley is wider. Therefore the dimensions are no use to me. There is no room for any type of screw collar. Just for another washer. Depressing. I guess I'll just have to wait for my South Bend. For now, I'll just keep trying to keep this fussy princess running and making parts.
     
  10. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Eric,

    There have been at least two other 109.0703's mentioned here within the past year. So one of those people could turn up. Unfortunately, the two (or three) later models share relatively few parts with the .0702 or .0703. The collar in particular is different. I noticed today that the 109.20630 has a split collar where the 109-0703 has the more conventional solid one.
     
  11. ericc

    ericc United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi. What is a solid collar? How do they tighten? I am familiar with split collars and two piece collars.
     
  12. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A solid collar (usually called just "collar") can be either threaded or unthreaded. In either case, it's usually tightened or locked with one or more set screws, preferably on a flat or flats. And where I earlier wrote "split collar", I should have written "two-piece collar". A split collar would be one piece with a gap cut through one side. They are tightened with a clamp or clamping screw. The parts drawing for the 109.20630 shows a 2-piece collar. The one for the 101.0703 shows a solid collar.
     
  13. ericc

    ericc United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi Robert. OK, I understand. It appears that the collar for the 630 is actually 2 piece, since it shows two screws. My friend's is like this. I don't see how there is room in mine for even a one piece collar unless the screw is pretty small, due to the 3118 washer in front of the back gear bell. Maybe it just needs more washers, or a thin roller thrust bearing.
     
  14. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    As best I can determine from the poor scan of a pretty slim manual, the collar sets the spindle end float. But I haven't been able to figure out where it is physically located. That's why I thought that getting an actual look at a complete original 0703 would be beneficial. On the parts list, there are 5 parts with the word "collar" in their names. One is simply "Collar". That's 3111 and its drawing shows it as a solid ring and does not show whether there is a set screw or screws in it. The other four are obviously from their names not on or around the spindle. For example "Tool Post Collar".
     

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