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Live center (extended nose MT3) for 1340 lathe?

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Alan H

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#1
Looking to buy an extended nose live center for my 1340 lathe. It has a MT#3 tailstock and the speed is 2500 rpm or less.

I have started looking at various options but would value the opinions and insights here on the board.
 

Bamban

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#2
I do a lot of AR15 barrel turning, I use regular live centers, the lower end ones from Royal brand, the ones I could buy cheaply compared to their extended nose versions. I have to admit, there are times I wish I have the extended nose.
 

Uglydog

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#4
I haven't been willing to pay the prices that are asked for new or gently used.
I regularly wish I had a MT5 or even an MT4 long nose (I could sleeve up).
I'm hoping to make one.
Yes, I know the total time and material may cost more than buying one.
But , I enjoy making this stuff, I'm not running a production shop, and quality will directly reflect my efforts and skill or lack thereof.

Daryl
MN
 
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bss1

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#5
Alan

Excellent timing, I am interested in a long nose center for the 1340 as well!
 

woodtickgreg

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#7
I regularly wish I had a MT5 or even an MT4 long nose (I could sleeve up).
I'm hoping to make one.
Yes, I know the total time and material may cost more than buying one.


Daryl
MN

I think I have a couple of mt5 live centers that I will never use. At least I think they are 5's, not really sure and I don't know how to figure out the size. And they are not longnose but maybe they could be changed out. They are older units. I would be interested in a trade if you think you could use them, I'll get pics and pm them if you are.
 

Uglydog

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#8
I think I have a couple of mt5 live centers that I will never use. At least I think they are 5's, not really sure and I don't know how to figure out the size. And they are not longnose but maybe they could be changed out. They are older units. I would be interested in a trade if you think you could use them, I'll get pics and pm them if you are.
Unfortunately I have multiple extra MT4 and MT5 standard live centers.
However, if they are different from what I already have I would be interested in some trades or possibly a purchase. Please PM me some pics/description. And identify if there is anything for which you've been hoping.

Daryl
MN
 

richl

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#9
A couple brands worth looking into
Zlive center
Skota
They are a bit more than the overseas models.
 

mksj

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#10
I also have a Shar's extended point live center, works well, but was kind of gritty and stiff at first. I added oil and ran it on the lathe for awhile and it is better, but still a bit stiff. Z-Live has what looks like the same exact model, just more expensive. Both of these look like a copy of the Royal extended point. The Shar's extended point live center that I have has a large body (2.31") that can sometimes interfere with the QCTP, this diameter is the exact same as the Royal below. The Skoda CNC point looks to be a bit more compact, but can't justify the 3X price. I have a Swiss standard point live center with has a pressure indicator, and it is like butter.

Skoda CNC Live center
https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/skmtprcnclic1.html

Royal Products 10213 model is 4X the price, at Zoro with their 25% off sale running now.
https://www.zoro.com/royal-products-hss-live-center-3-mt-cnc-point-10213/i/G2041107/?q=Royal+++10213
 

richl

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#11
Ouch, I really did not think the Skoda cost that much, I got mine with one of my lathes... cool:encourage:
 

mikey

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#12
Unless you need it right away, I would consider waiting for a Royal High Speed carbide tipped live center on ebay at a fair price. I have seen these come up from time to time for a steal. Here is the one I mean:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-High...636016&hash=item485cdf9952:g:3kEAAOxy3NBSe~9v

An extended tip center bears the load cantilevered way out there so the support has to be really solid. Royal centers have 3 angular contact bearings in the body plus a needle bearing on the proximal end to handle loads. The MT3 can handle up to 180# while maintaining the specified run out because of this construction.

The high speed center has a smaller body compared to the other centers in the Royal line, I believe.

Another option is to buy a Royal changeable tip live center and make your own tip to whatever configuration you want. Then send it to Royal and they will grind it to match the body of your live center and have it produce their level of run out (0.00005"). They will do this for any tip you come up with, for free.

Live centers are one accessory where it pays to have a good one; it affects anything you put on it.
 
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Alan H

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#14
How bout Riten? I don't think that one has been mentioned yet.

Wondering how much difference there is a between a Shars and Z Live Center? As Mark pointed out already, dimensionally and appearance wise they are the same.

The lathe this center is going on is not going to see more than 2500 rpm ever. Since it is a 1340 it is not going to see big heavy workpieces and if it did, I don't think I would be using an extended nose center. So considering these limitations, doesn't that have a big effect on the specs needed for an extended nose center and how much one should spend?
 

mksj

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#15
I believe the Z-Live and Shar's model are the same, but suffice it to say for the amount of use I think they all will work just fine. I use my extended point live center a lot more than I thought, but in my case I needed the extra extension because I have some interference with my DRO bracket and my QCTP. Also for turning smaller diameters, I have interference with the insert cutter. I just can't see that there would be any performance difference between these models, other than dimensions. On the used market, I have see used Ritten and Royal live centers come up, but often they may have had a hard life, NOS is often more expensive then buying new. If I wanted something between the Shar's and the higher end products, Z-Live makes a high end high speed extended point that is more compact. There higher end products tend to be well made, their lower priced products I have had some issues with. You usually get what you pay for, but sometimes you get lucky.
http://zlivecenter.com/long-nose-live-centers/S06008MT3
 

Alan H

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#16
Comparing a couple of Royals:

Model 10213 - 2.33" diameter bearing housing, 1.86" nose extension, 5k rpm, 3900# thrust -

1509722859498.png



Model 10663 - 2.12" diameter bearing housing, 1.75" nose extension, 6k rpm, 1270# thrust -

1509723277954.png

The first one is more robust from a capacity viewpoint. It's housing is shorter and more squatty compared to the second model. The second model is a bit slimmer and gives you more working space around the bearing housing. I am sure both are top shelf and of course their prices reflects that. They both are available on Zoro for around $500 delivered and both are drop shipped from Royal. They do not appear to be stocked by Zoro. If I were going to buy these, I would wait for a Zoro flash sale for 25 to 30% off and Zoro's free shipping.

While these Royals are very attractive from a quality and technical viewpoint, the costs are high. These costs make me really question the need a 6000 rpm live center for a 2500 rpm (normally 1800 w/o VFD) 1340 lathe. Flipside the accuracy of the PM1340GT continues to impress me and I am planning on using it for some fairly small parts where runout is a big issue.

Studies will continue! But if I had to chose between these two Royals, I'd likely go with the Mdl # 10663 (the second one). It provides a smaller diameter body and therefore some extra space.
 

Alan H

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#17
On the Royal theme and for entertainment.

Here's one of the models discussed above for $165 delivered on ebay! Seems like a really good deal until you think it through. It obviously needs to be rebuilt since its tip seems to have spent more time under the cutter than the workpieces it's held.

A rebuild by Royal is likely half the cost of a new one plus shipping to and fro. So that would be at least $275. So $275 plus $165 = $440. That's more than you can buy a new one for from Zoro when their flash sales come 'round! Add in your time and effort and it is an absolute bust. ebay is not a trustworthy marketplace to say the least. I use it often but have been burned enough to be quite cautious.

1509725275719.png
 

Dan_S

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#18
Comparing a couple of Royals:
While these Royals are very attractive from a quality and technical viewpoint, the costs are high. These costs make me really question the need a 6000 rpm live center for a 2500 rpm (normally 1800 w/o VFD) 1340 lathe.
This is the crux of the issue. Unless you plan on upgrading to a higher rpm machine, or have use cases that require a lot of tail stock pressure, you are just throwing money out the window in my opinion. Three things drive up bearing costs, tolerances, load capacity, and maximum rpm.
 

bss1

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#19
I was thinking along those same lines and was considering this one because of the relatively low RPM capability of the 1340 and my unlikely need for a high weight capacity or liquid proof seal for that matter .
http://zlivecenter.com/mt3-livecenter/S07002MT3

It has a smaller body than the mid priced model from Z-Live or Shars, but likely lesser bearings.
 

Alan H

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#20
Brad, that looks like a good option. A bit shorter on the reach but also the body is smaller which would help.

I agree on no need for being coolant proof. I use a Fog Buster from time to time but "coolant proof" is not a requirement for me either.
 

Alan H

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#21
Thanks for all the feedback.

Here's where I landed. One of my buddies reminded me of a deal I'd seen on ebay and I was able to buy a brand spanking new quad bearing Royal at a very, very attractive price.

It is a MT#2 so I will use a MT3 to MT2 adapter. Would have preferred a MT3 but the deal was over the top and I couldn't pass it up.

I called Royal and spoke to them about it being a bit stiff. They confirmed that 4 bearings and a seal make this appear to be too stiff when new but it will break in.

EDIT: Royal tech service also told me it would run hot in the beginning and not to worry about it. Just keep enough axial compression on it so it doesn't slip and gall the tip.

royal center.jpg
 
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mikey

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#22
Thanks for all the feedback.

Here's where I landed. One of my buddies reminded me of a deal I'd seen on ebay and I was able to buy a brand spanking new quad bearing Royal at a very, very attractive price.

It is a MT#2 so I will use a MT3 to MT2 adapter. Would have preferred a MT3 but the deal was over the top and I couldn't pass it up.

I called Royal and spoke to them about it being a bit stiff. They confirmed that 4 bearings and a seal make this appear to be too stiff when new but it will break in.

View attachment 246217
Wise choice, Alan.
 

bss1

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#23
Wow that’s a nice looking piece!
 
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