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Just bought a CIncinnati Toolmaster 1D my first Mill lots of questions

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bwbdub

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#1
newmill3.JPG m2.JPG newmill3.JPG
Hello I have been wanting a vertical mill for many years. After lots of looking for one in my price range (prices seem to be higher in my area) I just bought one. From the research I have done it is a 1960 Cincinnati toolmaster 10"x42" (1D I think) S/N 6J4V5J-42
I have many questions as I have never owned a mill or even used one. I just knew I wanted one. I bought a 13" southbend metal lathe a few years ago and have just loved learning machining.

My American Rotary phase converter will be here tomorrow. Cant wait to make some chips!

Anyone know where I can find a Y power feed motor? mine was missing when I bought it.
 

Bob Korves

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#2
Those are nice mills, like most anything made by Cincinnati...
 

Uglydog

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#3
Y power feed?
If you are looking for a servo unit. They are available from mulitple sources. I've heard that they sometimes need some fitting.
Good luck finding an old fashioned QCGB PF. I've looking for them for years.
If you decide to go servo and want to sell you Xpf, let me know. I'll even purchase a broken one.....

Daryl
MN
 

bwbdub

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#4
a7c427b5cb1acc08a8ab013472af2927.jpg

Got my American rotary phase converter today and temporarily wired it up to test the mill.

It's alive!!!!



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Dorn

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#5
Since you have never done milling before, be sure to understand the difference between normal milling and climb milling. If your machine has a significant amount of backlash you are going to be wanting to use normal milling most of the time, especially when taking heavy cuts. CNC machines generally use climb milling but that is because they are built to have very little backlash.

This video gives a good introduction:
 

bwbdub

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#6
Hey guys I have found my brake does not work much at all. If I push hard it will slow it down just barely. I have looked in the manual I have but can't find the brake. Does it use brake shoes like a Bridgeport? How do I get to them?


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Uglydog

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#7
My 1B doesn't have a brake.
Just wait for it to stop. Eventually. It doesn't nod like a BP either.
On the other hand the larger spindle, heavier column, table, knee, etc, arguably produce a more rigid machine which might last longer.
I've not done a sided by side comparison. My anecdotal experience compares my 1B and the Jhead BPs at the tech.
For all its failings I'll take my Cincy and hand feed over the BPs with the Servo PF.
Everything has ups and downsides...

Daryl
MN
 
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bwbdub

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#8
Found the brake pads. Very worn out. Made some new ones out of some organic disc brake pads.



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Uglydog

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#9
Never used a 1D.
Sounds fancy.
I think they also have a 2hp. Correct?
That would sometimes be helpful....

Daryl
MN
 

Bob Korves

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#10
I would take your brake parts to a large automotive brake distributor who also does industrial brake relining, drum and rotor turning, and other full service brake work. Ask them how they can help you...
 

Chipper5783

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#11
Hi BwBdub, Good to see you over on this board. I like the fix you did on your brake shoes (I find the spindle brake pretty handy). Did you ever figure out what the "vent" like hole on top of the quill feed gear box?

How is your search for tooling going? What I like about the 1D is the wide speed range and a very useful work envelop to modest size projects.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/another-cincy-toolmaster.26278/

I see you have made a few chips. Have you completed any projects?
 

bwbdub

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#13
Hi BwBdub, Good to see you over on this board. I like the fix you did on your brake shoes (I find the spindle brake pretty handy). Did you ever figure out what the "vent" like hole on top of the quill feed gear box?

How is your search for tooling going? What I like about the 1D is the wide speed range and a very useful work envelop to modest size projects.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/another-cincy-toolmaster.26278/

I see you have made a few chips. Have you completed any projects?

Hey Chip!
Still don't know exactly what the thing sticking out of the vent hole is. I'm guessing a dipstick since nothing shows up in the sight glass.

I have a problem with the American Rotary phase converter motor. It's making a racket!
First they had me take it apart and see if it was anything obvious. It all looked fine. Put it all back together and same noise.
So then they had me take it to a local electric motor repair shop to get checked out. That was on Thursday. I just called them to check on it and they said "I guess we can try and look at it today"
So other than just the initial few tests I have not been able to use it.



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Eremius

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#14
Sounds like your bearing experienced some crib death. Didn't you buy this new from American Rotary?
 

Chipper5783

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#15
Bwb, I probed the vent hole - there is metal not very far down. On mine there a portion of the head casting above the vent hole so the access isn't very good.

The site glass on mine works fine for monitoring the oil level. Obviously with such a small site glass, it is easy to over fill, but it does not leak out, the bull's eye glass works fine.
 

bwbdub

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#16
Sounds like your bearing experienced some crib death. Didn't you buy this new from American Rotary?
Yep brand new from American rotary.
I got it back from the shop. They said it Was missing a bearing preload washer. They also put new bearings in it.

I know American rotary does not make these motors. They buy them from Baldor. It must have been assembled at 4:55 on a Friday.
 

Bob Korves

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#17
(Snip)It must have been assembled at 4:55 on a Friday.
Yes, by a trainee while the trainer went on a bathroom break...:( Baldor is well know for making high quality products. Shi..., er, stuff happens even at the best factories with the best intentions and top notch quality control and final inspection. Let's just hope Baldor is not changing their business model to trying to beat the imports at their own game. Many companies have failed by going down that road...
 

bwbdub

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#18
Back up and running. Decided to try out a face mill for the first time. It's pretty darn cool.


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brino

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#19
@bwbdub,

Congrats on the "new" mill.
That looks like a lot of machine.
It sure throws chips and what a great surface finish.

Have fun and be safe!
-brino
 
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Chipper5783

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#20
Hey Bwb, good going on getting the Toolmaster running well. You have a pretty good bit of zoom on that face mill - aluminum I assume? What does a set of chompers cost for that? I have a 4" face mill but uses the APMT1604 inserts (only 2 edges) - and that runs me $115CAD per set. I generally use a flycutter.
 

bwbdub

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#21
Hey Bwb, good going on getting the Toolmaster running well. You have a pretty good bit of zoom on that face mill - aluminum I assume? What does a set of chompers cost for that? I have a 4" face mill but uses the APMT1604 inserts (only 2 edges) - and that runs me $115CAD per set. I generally use a flycutter.
Yeah it was running a bit fast. But the finish was good. And it was aluminum. Not sure on the price of inserts yet. The face mill came with those already installed.


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bwbdub

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#22
I cleaned up and painted my new to me Kurt vise today. The tops had a few apprentice marks on them so I used the face mill to clean them up. Oh and got a swivel base off eBay for it. I emailed Kurt workholding last week to order some new decals for the sides of the vise and I was really surprised when they offered to mail me some for free!

Turned out pretty good for a krylon rebuild

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Bob Korves

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#24
Red Xs instead of pictures! What is the fix for that?
If you click on "reply" you should be able to see the pics, Chipper. If bwbdub would have used the paper clip on his phone to post them it would have worked better, at least as I understand things here, but I am not a phone nerd...
 

bwbdub

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#25
I tried with the paper clip and they still don't show up?? not sure what im doing wrong...

I cleaned up and painted my new to me Kurt vise today. The tops had a few apprentice marks on them so I used the face mill to clean them up. Oh and got a swivel base off eBay for it. I emailed Kurt workholding last week to order some new decals for the sides of the vise and I was really surprised when they offered to mail me some for free!
Turned out pretty good for a krylon rebuild.



This is what it used to look like.



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bwbdub

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#26
Don't be such a square. Having the ability to make your own parts when you need it and not have to stop and go buy them is a game changer.
IMG_6839.JPG


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Skyboy

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#27
1960 Cincinnati toolmaster 10"x42" (1D I think) S/N 6J4V5J-42

Mine is S/N 6J4V5T-243. It left the Cincinnati factory in Feb of 1968.


What did you do about the feed gearbox motor? I'm trying to re-install the x axis feed gearbox on my machine. It has been off since I have had it and the motor looks kinda iffy. Hoping it works but wondering if there are any options if it doesn't?
 

Bob Korves

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#28
First, try it and see if it works. A single test is worth 1000 opinions from people who are not there to see it. A lot of poor looking stuff works just fine.
 

Uglydog

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#29
I agree with Bob Korves. Try it out.
First rotate the shaft by hand. Is it smooth?
Then hook to electricity. Make sure it's grounded and won't roll to the floor on start up.
Motors can be rebuilt. If it needs work it may be as simple as bearing or there might be more expensive problems...
If the motor needs lots of work you might open the gear box first and identify the condition of the gears and etc.

I encourage you to keep with the OEM PF.
However, if you opt to change her out for a vari-speed. There are likely HM who would be interested in buying the carcass.
That includes me!!
Regardless, I hope you make the OEM PF work.

Daryl
MN
 

Skyboy

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#30
The master plan is to restore the original table feed if at all possible. Heck, I've used the machine for several yrs with nothing but bare leadscrew sticking out of that end if the table! Now that I have all that cleaned up, hoping to test the feed motor/gearbox in the next day or so and if it works, have it installed by the end of the week.

The previous owner said it didn't work and he removed it because it took too much effort to crank the table back and forth with the added weight of the gearbox. So I'm ready for any surprises that show up.
 
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