Perhaps that is what is going on with my Gisholt.
She has a 10hp 3phase.
She starts fine, runs well.
Then she shuts down.
Seems to restart well. However, doesn't run to long before she shuts down again.
I figured it had something to do with electrical demand in the area as I started having trouble when it got hot and most homeowners started their Air Conditioners.
How can I best test to learn if this is the problem?
Thank you,
Daryl
MN
Daryl,
I do a lot of standard 3 phase stuff but not very much with these “static converters”. The Ulma Doc sent me a e-mail and we had a good chat about this. May I suggest you Google the phase-a-matic site it goes into these in detail. Keep in mind what the site is saying about these they are for light or moderate use. This saw I would say would be a good candidate for the device, and I say that is what is in the picture you posted, just unsure of the manufacturer. Ulma Doc is right the normal 220 VAC single phase should be green is ground, black and white are the 220 VAC legs, could be black and red for the (input legs). He gave me a overview on how they work and the site also does a pretty good explanation. The motor starts on the capacitors, like a regular single phase motor without the centrifugal switch. Then the way I read it the capacitors disconnect, and the windings in the motor you are running, somehow make the third leg, or keep it running. So bottom line here is the 3 phase motor is running, but not on true 3 phase, and not at full power! So the site talks about various motors and how much it will de-rate them, it also talks about mechanical means to decrease the load on the motor, Example: Changing pulleys. Gears, etc.
The only options I run on a everyday basis are:
480 VAC 3 Phase
220 VAC Single Phase
220 VAC 3 Phase motors running on a VFD drive.
Now by the looks of things on the site you are getting quite a bit of iron, also no offense but, you sound like myself where you are digging up a lot of buy’s , and deals, that’s a good thing! You may want to consider setting up 4 or 5 machines, off a dedicated 3 phase branch setup/system. You can also check with the local power company, sometimes good, sometimes bad, if 3 phase is on the street, it could be doable, most houses do not have the 3 phase leg, even on the highline feeding the transformer to the homes. So they usually have one of two things going, you pay the entire cost to get the highline down the street or wherever the 3 phase stopped closest to your shop. Sometimes they will work with you if you can guarantee you will be using a certain amount of power, usually if the $2500-$5000 a month range! Your state may be different but that’s the way it goes here in Oregon. The phase-a-matic site also talks about using there controller to slave another motor onto the line and make the 3[SUP]
rd[/SUP] leg of the three phase of the “Slave Non Operating Motor”. With that setup you have a actual 3[SUP]
rd[/SUP] leg, 3 phase system! I would be on the look out for some 3 phase disconnects, in the future. That way when you wire your shop, you don’t have too but it is nice to have a disconnect at each machine, thermal overloads are nice also. The disconnects look pretty much like any you see in a home, but there will be 3 feed wire L1,L2,L3, and normally, a ground buss bar on one side. If the disconnect has thermal overloads in it will have 3 heaters in it one for each leg, the each usually have 2 flat head screws on each end. If its electronic it will usually have a couple of small dials trimmer pots, for the amp setting, and usually a Red reset button. So to summarize this the only to ways I know to get actual 3 phase power are: 1 A rotary Phase Converter 2. 3 Phase off the highline.
On the other problem of the machine shutting down . You need to figure out what kind of converter do you have and what is the rating? Also do you know how to use a inductive amp meter, and do you have one? Remember the 3 phase motors start and run due to the rotation of the phases, that is why when you swap any two leads the motor will rotate the opposite direction! But due to the nature of this motor and wiring design, if you have good connections, and good windings in the motor, the amp draw on each leg should be very close to the same on each leg! My 30 HP Quincy compressor would be like 47.1 , 47.4 , 46.9, they are not all PERFECT but pretty equal. So when one leg is dropping out the other 2 will try to make it up, and that can cause too much load and trip thermals, fuses etc. So you need to check all three legs to your motor running, record the readings, and then see 1 are they close to the same? 2 If yes are the running right at the limit of you 3 phase converter? IE 14.9 on a 15 amp static converter?
Bob in Oregon
- - - Updated - - -
Perhaps that is what is going on with my Gisholt.
She has a 10hp 3phase.
She starts fine, runs well.
Then she shuts down.
Seems to restart well. However, doesn't run to long before she shuts down again.
I figured it had something to do with electrical demand in the area as I started having trouble when it got hot and most homeowners started their Air Conditioners.
How can I best test to learn if this is the problem?
Thank you,
Daryl
MN
I posted some help in another post, but one more thing, you may want to test the input voltage to your converter. May also help to check it at various times during the day when you think the demand will be the most. Might help to make sure you have pretty steady input power to the converter!
Bob in Oregon
- - - Updated - - -
Daryl,
I do a lot of standard 3 phase stuff but not very much with these “static converters”. The Ulma Doc sent me a e-mail and we had a good chat about this. May I suggest you Google the phase-a-matic site it goes into these in detail. Keep in mind what the site is saying about these they are for light or moderate use. This saw I would say would be a good candidate for the device, and I say that is what is in the picture you posted, just unsure of the manufacturer. Ulma Doc is right the normal 220 VAC single phase should be green is ground, black and white are the 220 VAC legs, could be black and red for the (input legs). He gave me a overview on how they work and the site also does a pretty good explanation. The motor starts on the capacitors, like a regular single phase motor without the centrifugal switch. Then the way I read it the capacitors disconnect, and the windings in the motor you are running, somehow make the third leg, or keep it running. So bottom line here is the 3 phase motor is running, but not on true 3 phase, and not at full power! So the site talks about various motors and how much it will de-rate them, it also talks about mechanical means to decrease the load on the motor, Example: Changing pulleys. Gears, etc.
The only options I run on a everyday basis are:
480 VAC 3 Phase
220 VAC Single Phase
220 VAC 3 Phase motors running on a VFD drive.
Now by the looks of things on the site you are getting quite a bit of iron, also no offense but, you sound like myself where you are digging up a lot of buy’s , and deals, that’s a good thing! You may want to consider setting up 4 or 5 machines, off a dedicated 3 phase branch setup/system. You can also check with the local power company, sometimes good, sometimes bad, if 3 phase is on the street, it could be doable, most houses do not have the 3 phase leg, even on the highline feeding the transformer to the homes. So they usually have one of two things going, you pay the entire cost to get the highline down the street or wherever the 3 phase stopped closest to your shop. Sometimes they will work with you if you can guarantee you will be using a certain amount of power, usually if the $2500-$5000 a month range! Your state may be different but that’s the way it goes here in Oregon. The phase-a-matic site also talks about using there controller to slave another motor onto the line and make the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] leg of the three phase of the “Slave Non Operating Motor”. With that setup you have a actual 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] leg, 3 phase system! I would be on the look out for some 3 phase disconnects, in the future. That way when you wire your shop, you don’t have too but it is nice to have a disconnect at each machine, thermal overloads are nice also. The disconnects look pretty much like any you see in a home, but there will be 3 feed wire L1,L2,L3, and normally, a ground buss bar on one side. If the disconnect has thermal overloads in it will have 3 heaters in it one for each leg, the each usually have 2 flat head screws on each end. If its electronic it will usually have a couple of small dials trimmer pots, for the amp setting, and usually a Red reset button. So to summarize this the only to ways I know to get actual 3 phase power are: 1 A rotary Phase Converter 2. 3 Phase off the highline.
On the other problem of the machine shutting down . You need to figure out what kind of converter do you have and what is the rating? Also do you know how to use a inductive amp meter, and do you have one? Remember the 3 phase motors start and run due to the rotation of the phases, that is why when you swap any two leads the motor will rotate the opposite direction! But due to the nature of this motor and wiring design, if you have good connections, and good windings in the motor, the amp draw on each leg should be very close to the same on each leg! My 30 HP Quincy compressor would be like 47.1 , 47.4 , 46.9, they are not all PERFECT but pretty equal. So when one leg is dropping out the other 2 will try to make it up, and that can cause too much load and trip thermals, fuses etc. So you need to check all three legs to your motor running, record the readings, and then see 1 are they close to the same? 2 If yes are the running right at the limit of you 3 phase converter? IE 14.9 on a 15 amp static converter?
Bob in Oregon
- - - Updated - - -
I posted some help in another post, but one more thing, you may want to test the input voltage to your converter. May also help to check it at various times during the day when you think the demand will be the most. Might help to make sure you have pretty steady input power to the converter!
Bob in Oregon
Let me clarify one thing, you could run twist lock, 4 wire plugs to each machine, if they are all the same amperage, they probably wont be! So I would suggest a fused disconnect at each machine, with thermals is the best to protect each machine, sorry its a little more up front but way better latter on. When people upgrade machine's a lot of times they go from the wall out and just toss the old disconnects!
Bob in Oregon
- - - Updated - - -
Oops just so you know the inductive ampmeter has a loop and goes around each line one at a time to read the AMPS, so the 46 and 47 numbers are the AMP load on each line. Bob