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MON I Need some Monarch info Help

Discussion in 'MONARCH MACHINE TOOL CO.' started by BeGood, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. BeGood

    BeGood Iron Registered Member

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    Hello
    I am just starting out getting some equipment. Im retired and I just found a beautiful 10 EE. I need to know what you think about learning on this lathe.

    Thank you for any help..
     
  2. Cal Haines

    Cal Haines Active Member Active Member

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    That's what I learned on.

    Cal
     
  3. BeGood

    BeGood Iron Registered Member

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    Cal, He wants 3500. It looks new, the guy selling it looks about 85 to 90 and he said he retired 25 years ago and he just stored this in his shop. He also said he didn't use it as much as he did his other lathe that still looks new. 00Q0Q_6WSsDZpoIjS_600x450.jpg 00V0V_3f3s6YDePFj_600x450.jpg 00505_73Sg557AjWs_600x450.jpg 00u0u_l6CYRkegDtT_600x450.jpg

    lathe.jpg lathe2.jpg lathe3.jpg 00Q0Q_6WSsDZpoIjS_600x450.jpg 00V0V_3f3s6YDePFj_600x450.jpg 00505_73Sg557AjWs_600x450.jpg 00u0u_l6CYRkegDtT_600x450.jpg
     
  4. Cal Haines

    Cal Haines Active Member Active Member

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    Can he demonstrate it for you under power? What tooling is included?

    Cal
     
  5. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    As far as learning goes, I think that would be a great lathe to learn on. Not sure about the value. I just don't know what these are going for, you'll have to check around for pricing, and see how much tooling comes with it. It looks really clean, and well cared for in the pictures. If it looks good up close, and the price is right, then go for it.
     
  6. BeGood

    BeGood Iron Registered Member

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    He told me he would run it and he told me to bring someone with me but I don't have anyone to go. Do you think 3500 might be to much. I live in Visalia Ca..
    I want it but I don't want to go off just looks.
     
  7. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    I just did a web search, and the going price seems to be around $4500, so for $3500 it is on the low end of the range. I guess the best way to check it out is to make sure it powers up, check all of the functions, and run it through all of the speeds. Listen for any clunking noises. Visually inspect the ways, if they are smooth there is normally not a lot of wear. Check the back lash on the compound and the cross slide. I would consider 0.050 backlash acceptable, in a used machine. Close the half nuts and check the lash there by trying to move the carriage back and forth. I would expect some. Look at the lead screw, compare the threads on the right end with the threads in the middle where it is normally used, if they look pretty much the same then the lead screw is not excessively worn. Also look for evidence of the compound crashing into the chuck, this normally shows up as chipped edges on the compound. A heavy crash could mean a bent spindle. Put a piece of ground stock in the chuck and check the runout with a dial indicator. I would expect a good 3 jaw chick to have <0.005 runout. This would not be a show stopper, chucks can be reground.

    I hope this helps.
     
  8. BeGood

    BeGood Iron Registered Member

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    Thank you Jim, I am going tomorrow. It seems this guy is a nice guy. Old WWll B-17 gunner. He is very pround of his equipment and his service to America. Wish there were more younger people like him. If it seems like a good machine, I think Ill buy them regardless. I think he has some things he wants to take care of, and need to sale them. Thanks again Jim.
     
  9. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    My pleasure. I'll bet if you ask the seller, he'll be happy to show you how to check out a lathe, and show you how to run it. Some of the B-17 stories should be interesting too!!
     
  10. jpfabricator

    jpfabricator United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Man if that lathe was 500 miles closer, Id be trying to talk you out of it.
    I have wanted a 10ee for loooong while now.
    My day will come!

    Jake Parker
     
  11. BeGood

    BeGood Iron Registered Member

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    Thanks Jake, I'll post pictures of it up close tomorrow. I hope he has a lot of tooling for it. I think I might need to find a company to pick it up and deliver to me. Yikes
     
  12. Cal Haines

    Cal Haines Active Member Active Member

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    Sorry I'm a bit slow responding.

    That's a second-generation "round-dial" 10EE. The "round-dial" refers to the large round plate or dial on the quick-change gearbox. In the mid 40s the 10EE was redesigned and the "square-dial" gearbox was introduced; a version of the "square-dial" 10EE is still built today. That machine was probably built no later than 1941. The last (third generation) round-dials were built in the beginning of 1945.

    $3500 is pretty high, IMHO, for a round-dial of that vintage. It would need to be in exceptional condition and fully tooled to be a good value at that price. I've seen newer round-dials in excellent condition sell in CA for $2500.

    You need to find out if it still has the original motor/generator (MG) drive. I see an extra start button below the start/stop station, so there's been some sort of wiring change. You need to take off all of the covers and take pictures of what's inside. You should find the MG under the chip pan, filling the whole space.

    I'm a bit concerned about this machine, since the headstock and the base do not appear to be the same vintage. The base is a third-generation piggy-back exciter MG base; the headstock is second-generation and would have been on a machine with an in-line exciter MG. It's telling that the build plate, normally mounted on the base, below the tailstock and to the right of the front cover, is missing.

    The best way to get an idea about the condition of a 10EE is to turn a test bar, about 1" in diameter and 4" long. If the spindle is in good condition you should be able to get a very nice surface finish. If the bar has only a few tenths taper over the length, the bed is probably in good shape. All 10EEs have hardened bed ways and most of the wear usually happens to the saddle. It's difficult to tell much about the condition of the carriage and bed by looking at the ways; the ways can look beautiful and the saddle can have a lot of wear. A machine in good condition will have at least 0.005" clearance between the saddle and the tailstock flat-way. Check with a feeler gage as shown in this photo:
    IMG_0789.JPG

    Get the serial number. It will be stamped on the right end of the bed, in the front, between the tailstock flat-way and the carriage V-way. There should be a plate on the cover of the DC control panel (the big box full of relays, under the headstock/gearbox and next to the spindle motor) that has the serial number of the machine on it; the two should match. Get a photo of the inside of the DC control panel.

    If the chuck on the machine is original to the machine it will have the machine’s serial number stamped on the back. A machine with all original tooling is a rare find but speaks to the life the machine has led.

    I can't tell from the photos if it has a taper attachment. That adds to the value of the machine.

    Let me know what you find when you visit the machine.

    Cal

    IMG_0789.JPG
     
  13. jpfabricator

    jpfabricator United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    So, did you look at it? If so what do you think? We are waiting to hear about your awsome deal!

    Jake Parker
     
  14. BeGood

    BeGood Iron Registered Member

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    Well I went to go see the lathe today and what a experience. The lathe looked nice but once you got close and really looked at it you could see some issues. I asked if we could test a bar. I was told he only wanted to turn it on so I could see it run. The old guy was really nice but his son was a different story. He didn't want his dad to sell it which worked out for me but I really was wanting to get it. I think the son just wants his dad to keep it so he can sell it later. The old man told his son to butt out, I had to laugh to myself but I guess the son has never had any interest until now. All in all I did have a nice time talking to him. He told me a few good stories. I'm still on the Hunt for a great lathe. Oh last thing it had no tooling and the old guy told me that he had it in the garage but it disappeared. I wonder who took it..:thinking:
     
  15. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    Great kid he has there. :*****slap2: Good luck in your quest.
     

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