How do you rate a Kurt vise compared to a chinese knockoff...

HMF

HMF

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Hey Guys,

I need a new vise for my milling machine. Sure, Kurt vises are great, but they cost an arm and a leg.

There are several Chinese reproduction vises on the market.

What I want to know is, how do these stand up next to a Kurt and what Chinese brands (i.e. Phase II, etc) are the best to buy.

Thanks,

Nelson
 
I'd say that much depends on how hard you are on a vise. I've used Kurt mostly, and can justify the expense being in business, but also have some time on imports. The fit n finish is far better on the Kurt, but functionally, I see the casting quality as inferior on the imports. They "flex" more.
 
What about a newbie wanna-be home shop guy like me- will it matter?

If offered a "well-used" American vise or new import, which would you pick, sight unseen? I had to make that choice and picked the new Chinese.

How would you evaluate the used vise? Used Kurts appear on Ebay, but you can't see them or run a DTI on the jaws.

Thanks.

Nelson
 
Realistically, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference unless you are doing production work where tight repeatability is required. The angle lock, or draw down design is going to function the same, it's just that with looser work on the vise parts, you won't get the same precision loading. I'd bet that the parallelism of the base to ways isn't quite as good on the imports, but for 90% of vise work, if you really need it close, you'll have some jaw inserts and can machine the step you need.

Sight unseen? I'd go with a new import. If I could look it over, the obvious knocks and holes indicate abuse. Absent them, the used one would be my choice, provided it was reasonably priced. I have an Enco oldie and a domestic Bridgeport make, and between the two, the BP seems to be a harder cast, just ringing it. The newer Enco stuff has not impressed me. The old one is always on the knee mill, and a like new Kurt reserved for close work. The bigger mill has an OEM supplied vise made by or for Cincinnati I believe. It's an 8".
 
It's a tough call. When all I could afford was an import, I bought an import. It did the job, but when I lucked into a used Kurt the quality of my mill work improved noticeably. By that I mean that angles were more square and I could hold tolerances better. And on a mill/drill no less. My vise is actually worth about the same as the mill/drill it sits on! My import was a Kurt copy, but the pull-down on the upper jaw never worked as well and it needed some fine tuning on the internal surfaces before it worked even passably. Buy what you can afford and learn to use it to the maximum, but always keep an eye out for better. There are also a couple other good vises besides Kurt, but I've no direct experience with them.

Conrad
 
While my knee jerk reaction would be to use chicom stuff only as boat anchors, I have seen many people happy with them. The problem is in quality control - one vise may be great and the next a candidate for resmelting. That said, many people are happy with Phase II and Glacern vises (I believe they are chicom). You might also want to watch CL for used Kurts, though you may need to put some work into them. I've picked up several decent vises like this - 2 brand name Bridgeport 6" for about $20 each and a Kurt D80 with three sets of jaws and a swivel base for $400 (this one counts as a major gloat as it was virtually new).

Don't worry too much about the condition of the jaws as a replacement set can either be bought or fabricated. If you have a surface grinder, you can fix virtually any problem (nicks, dings, mild warping) short of a cracked base casting.

I've also seen people that have effectively used out of square vises by shimming them and/or adjusting the tram of the mill head - the important thing is to know how and to what extent the vise is out of square.

Brian
Taxachusetts
 
Oh, and if you go for a used vise, and get the handle with it, use the pretzel shape as bargaining power. If it's not there, assume it was too bent to show. ;)
 
I have a 6" Taiwan made Vertex swivel vise on my mill and it has been a decent vise. I have had no complaints other than the jaws are actually 6-1/4" and the US made spring loaded parallel separators I got from KBC don't fit as they are only a hair wider than 6"

Walter
 
I have a 5" Chinese copy of a Kurt vice. I had to machine both sides of the base as they were far from flat
The hole for the pin that the vice swivels on was not in the centre so I bored it larger and made a stepped pin for it.
The bottom of the vice was not flat so I face milled it. The stationary jaw was .090" higher than the movable jaw so I face milled the top of the vice as well. Surprisingly the ways are only out about .003".
I paid $135.00 for it. You get what you pay for.

Terry
 
I have been looking for a vise for a long time and was considering one of the cheap Chinese variety until about 2 weeks ago. I was out cold calling, looking for business when I stumbled upon a man who was going out of business and he sold me 4 Kurt 6 inch vises for $100.00 each. That was a deal that was too good to pass up. I need 2 vises for my new Tormach PCNC1100. I sold 2 of the vises for $250.00 each. I got my vises for free and actually made $100.00 on the deal.
 
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