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Hercus 260 (south Bend Gs26-075)

Discussion in 'HERCUS LATHES' started by Boris Ludwig, Nov 2, 2016.

  1. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    This is my first post here, I live in Sydney Australia and I've recently become a Hercus 260 (Southbend SG26-075) owner.

    It appears my machine is a South bend badged as a Hercus 260. Hercus originally made it for the American market for South bend. So there are some features I'm not sure about. As far as I can tell from recent conversations with many Hercus owners in Australia so far it's the only one in Australia.

    Anyway, my experience is very limited to making reel seats on my cane fly rods at work where a Hercus lathe has been available to me.

    My immediate goal is to set up the gear correctly. Then learn basic machining so I can make some basic nickel silver hardware for my rods.

    Long term perhaps I'd like to learn how to make a fly reel to add to my rods.
    I look forward to learning as much as I can.


    Here are a few pics.

    20161028_123414%201_zps7iyc1iog.jpg

    20161028_123401_zpsrttylxwa.jpg

    20151119_094810_zpsve447wkg.jpg
     
  2. rwm

    rwm Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Welcome! Nice lathe. What is the spindle. Looks like a collet chuck on there?
    Robert
     
  3. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks for the welcome Robert.

    Actually, it's the spindle nose, a D1-4.
     
  4. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have only seen two Hercus 9" lathes, and they are nearly identical copies of the South Bend 9" lathe. Except better. At least that is what their owners said, and from what I saw, I think I believe them... Your lathe looks newer and updated compared to the ones I saw, with the D1 series spindle and the more squared off lines. If 260 is the swing, that would be around 9-10 inches.
     
  5. rwm

    rwm Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    My SB has a D1-3. I think the D1-4 will be better.
    R
     
  6. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Bob, after talking to Hercus, it Appears My lathe was one of the Last assembled, in 2000. In fact, its thought it was assembled from part inventory to clear remaing stock, hence it was badged hercus 260 as it was never going to the US.
     
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  7. roverguy

    roverguy Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Boris

    That is a neat lathe . I like your cane fly rods . I was a fly fisher years ago and wanted to make a split cane rod , I had a book but where to get the proper cane ? . I was in Tasmania in 1975 , lived in a old house on the Liffey river . One day who should turn up - David Scholes and his wife . David was a very friendly guy and he signed the books I had there by the riverside. He had the latest carbon fibre rod and a Martin reel , he used cane rods back in the 1930's of course and the silk lines . I was invited to his house for a visit . He scared the daylights out of me - he gave me a lift in his Citroen car and he drove like a madman ... we almost hit a mob of sheep . Maybe he thought he was back flying a Lancaster bomber in WW2 .

    Regards Mike
     
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  8. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Mike, that's quite a story about David Scholes. I never had the privilege to meet him but he was a giant in the fly community in Australia.

    Unusual what one can find on forums. Thanks for your post.

    Best regards

    BTW nice aussie phrase "mob of sheep"
     
  9. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Update on my lathe.

    I have decided to change the vee belts.
    For a couple of reasons. They are worn with the odd nick and the spindle belt is the wrong one, too long. This makes the counter shaft lay too far back and the drive belt rubs on the gear train back cover.

    Any ideas?

    20161028_123010_zpsgcgxkin8.jpg

    If I tap the spindle rear end with a mallet and wood I can probably get it out but to put the rear bearing back on the spindle looks more tricky.

    Tried that but it will not move. I'll have to make a spindle puller.

    Resized_rear_bearing_cone_pulled_into_place_zpsgiwyprho.jpe
     
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  10. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    G'Day Boris!
    i own a Hercus ARH 9" lathe and think is is the best lil lathe i have ever laid hands on!
    the 260 looks a lot like a typical Asian 1024 design, but undoubtedly superior if it came out of a Hercus factory.
    the helical gearing is not only stronger than straight spur gearing, but it also has the added bonus of running quietly in backgear.
    you have a capable machine tool that you should be proud to own!
    all the best
    mike:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
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  11. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks Mike. I'm looking forward to having it all up and running as well so can be and learning to use it properly.
     
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  12. Jordan

    Jordan Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Although very similar to the one made for the Australian market, your Hercus 260 does indeed look like a USA spec model.
    The rear pulley shaft has a feature that supposedly makes it easier to change the belt, although it is still a bit of a pain. There is a bolt that can be undone on the right hand side, which allows the shaft to split and provide a small gap for the belt to go through. It's explained in the Hercus 260 manual, which can still be bought. See ebay item 201708758076
    You still need to dismantle the main spindle though. The puller is described in this other maintenance booklet attached here, along with a 260 brochure.

    I like your lathe so much, I'll request that if/when you are inclined to sell it at any time, please let me know!
    jprincic<AT>gmail<DOT>com

    Jordan
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. Localele

    Localele Australia Iron Registered Member

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  14. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Jordan,

    Thanks for your post and those attachments I really appreciate them.

    Mal form AHM said the same thing when he came over to have a look. He also said he'd buy it if I ever want to sell it. But I'll let you know if it ever comes to selling.

    As far as getting the belt on I've started the process and got it around the countershaft and the back gear but until make a puller that can be used with this spindle, as the spindle has a bigger diameter and the nose cone is a D1-4 as you know, its waiting.

    See the photo to where I'm up to.

    20161105_215031_zpss5ax4p1w.jpg
     

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  15. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Localele,

    That's a great suggestion thanks. I've already got the new belts but I appreciate the info.
     
  16. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Just wondering if any of you blokes know what spindle taper this lathe has?

    I've looked around but can't find the answer. Any help would be appreciated.
     
  17. Localele

    Localele Australia Iron Registered Member

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    The normal Hercus 260 is a No.4 Morse Taper in the headstock and a No.2 MT in the tailstock.
     
  18. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks Localele. Would the difference in the bore size influence that taper? The bore through the spindle on the GS26 is 1 3/8" and a 260 has a 1 1/16" wondering if that makes a difference.
     
  19. Localele

    Localele Australia Iron Registered Member

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    Here are a few taper dimensions for you to check.It is obviously bigger than a No 4MT.

    Screen Shot 2016-11-14 at 5.53.06 am.png
     
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  20. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Cheers Mike.
     
  21. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    I finally made the spindle puller and pulled the spindle...

    20161119_200315_zpsvxbivkpa.jpg


    20161119_200321_zpsemheyvcq.jpg




    20161119_200600_zpsdi0dci8d.jpg

    All back together with the belt on.

    20161124_210025_zpspmwnzhie.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
  22. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Just to put it on the record the taper in my spindle has an ID 1.625 at the large end.
    I have subsequently learned that this taper is a "Jarno" #13 Large end 1.625, small end 1.300, length 6.50, TPF 0.600, TPI 0.050

    Does anyone know if there are any Jarno 13 adaptors for 5C collets? Or for any type of collets for that matter? Are these types of adaptors available?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  23. Mickey Mullins

    Mickey Mullins United States Iron Registered Member

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    Boris,
    I am sure your headstock spindle is 5MT,I wouldn't think that Hercus/Southbend would deviate from the Heavy 10L spindle that much as to bore one as a Jarno taper
    UNLESS that spindle was going to a different country(not USA).Those taper dimensions listed above are for male tapers.
    Good Luck and I'll measure my spindle for you this evening.
    Mickey
     
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  24. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Jarno tapers were pretty much obsolete by the time that lathe was made. The additional stickout of the male taper will bring it to the chart MT5 sizing. The spindle does not have a full length taper. I am pretty sure you will find it to be a MT5. The MT5 tapers are in use pretty much everywhere, see if you can borrow a tool with that taper to test the spindle. Don't buy the Jarno if you cannot return it or you want a wall ornament (in my opinion.) A quick Google search does not show the words "Hercus" and "Jarno" together anywhere except in your post here.
     
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  25. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    Bob,

    thanks for that post, it makes much sense.
    If the adaptor doesn't go all the way to the surface of the spindle it would probably be very close.

    Mickey, as far as I'm aware they were made for the US market only and many of them were used in the military.

    It makes sense that these things were standardised across Hercus and Southbend but you're the first person I've found that has one besides seeing this machine rarely come for sale through an agency.

    Ok, thanks again.
     
  26. Mickey Mullins

    Mickey Mullins United States Iron Registered Member

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    Boris
    Ok my lathe spindle at the large end of the taper is 1.620 so I am sure it is the same as yours I actually measured with an inside mic right at the crest.So you have to find at least 1.72 piece of bar for your headstock center.Bit of advice just turn a center and do NOT harden it,you can always use the machine to fix your 60' cone and not a grinder.
    Mickey Mullins
     
  27. Mickey Mullins

    Mickey Mullins United States Iron Registered Member

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    I should mention your taper should stick out enough for your drive plate with a D1-4 it's pretty substantial.
    Mickey Mullins
     
  28. wm460

    wm460 Australia Active User Active Member

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    Boris, did you change your bearings when you pulled your spindle out, if so, do you remember the bearing part numbers?
     
  29. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    No I didn't change the bearings. They were fine. But the bearing #'s should be in the spare parts manual.
     
  30. Boris Ludwig

    Boris Ludwig Australia Active Member Active Member

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    I borrowed a test bar from a workshop as I want to make sure the tailstock centre is true and adjust if necessary.

    I bought an MT5 to MT2 adapter for the spindle so I can put a dead centre in the spindle to put the test bar between the centres.

    Problem I have is the MT5 doesn't fit the spindle. The smaller end of the adapter is too large to fit into the spindle. I
    borrowed an MT4 adapter just to see the difference it's much too small for the taper I have in my spindle.

    I'm not sure what to do next....
    Any ideas or suggestions?
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017

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