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Help With Burke #4

Discussion in 'BURKE-US MACHINE TOOL & BARKER MACHINES' started by Glenn Brooks, Jul 31, 2016.

  1. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    image.jpeg image.jpg image.jpeg Hello all,

    Note: I went back out and figured out how the assembly goes back together - found a couple of threaded nuts in a box of loose parts that fit the lead screw - ran them in tight against the inside of the casting so no play with the lead screw. Also reversed the auto feed lever to hold the arm engaged . So looks like good to Go. love the simplicity!

    Tomorrow will work on connecting the drive linkage to the auto feed...


    Having a couple of problems figuring out how the table assembly goes back together on my Burke #4. I purchased the machine partially disassembled so don't know if any parts are missing.

    My first problem is how to secure the y axis lead screw against the bushing, so it pushes and pulls the table along the knee when one turns the hand wheel. In the first photo, the leadscrew has a thread pattern, but no sign of a shoulder, pin, or method to hold it in place after inserted into the bushing in the knee. Of course the army Burke manual shows no internals...


    Second issue, is how does the auto feed lever on the right end end of the table hold the the x axis leadscrew gears in place to feed the table? Here are the parts I have installed - in what I assume are the correct locations...

    Iam off searching for an exploded parts list, but so far no success...

    Thanks much for any suggestions anyone can offer!

    Regards
    Glenn
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
  2. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    What does the other end of the Y lead screw look like? The thrust bearing might be on that end. Also looks like there is a shoulder at the end of the threads in the picture.
     
  3. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I made a new lead screw for the y axis on my Burke 4 ( but it is probably older). I don't look like yours. I have some diagrams on my computer but can't get online with it until Wednesday when I get my new phone. ( I use my phone for the internet connection). I'll post some photos as soon as I get the computer back online.
     
  4. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The other end just hangs in the air. Everything is on the front end. I have a couple diagrams but they look different.
     
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  5. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Glenn,
    I can help with a lot of this stuff, First thing in the morning.
    Regards
    dgehricke
     
  6. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg





    Thanks much guys! I got everything assembled after I posted this AM. Took another look at it and made some notes in my first post as to what I did.

    Pics above tell the tale...

    Also, experimented with the round threaded "lock nuts" that tension the bolts that hold the vertical gib in place for the Z axis table casting. Still haven't found a similar example on line. But it looks like these are used to lock the tension on the vertical gibb bolts. Seems to work well, if a bit odd.

    Also discovered cap screws don't work with this casting as the head of the lowest cap screw binds up against the flare lower part of main base casting, causing the downward movement of the table to get stiff and stop working 2 or 3 inches from the bottom. A regular hex head bolt clears just fine.

    All in all, very happy to get this baby ALMOST ready to use!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
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  7. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg Ok, next issue. Tried to mount the vertical milling attachment this evening. Very hard to aline the arbor with the attachment and what I assume is an existing collet in the assembly won't come out. Maybe it's not a collet, but the actual spindle???

    Anybody have an exploded view drawing of the vertical attachment. Iam trying to understand how this things works...

    Any suggestions.

    Thanks
    Glenn
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  8. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Glenn,
    The shaft has a keyway in it and the bronze gear inside the head has a key stock,cheek it with a light
    the shaft need to go in and engage the the keyway,The bronze gear floats inside so you will have to align the gear with the shaft as you do this.
    Also I don't see the shaft for the vertical head in any of the photos,The bronze bushing that is in the last photo is part of the bronze gear assembly
    attached a copy of the Vertical head drawing.
    Hope I got this right and hope it helps.
    Regards
    Wally G
    dgehricke
     

    Attached Files:

  9. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That is the end of the spindle. It takes 3C collets. There should be a drawbar to hold the collet in. I made one cause mine was missing. I have a print for making it if you need it.

    Seems many of these machines are slightly different. Maybe depending on year made. The center lock nut on the vertical gib on mine has a handle to tighen and lock when milling , which you WILL need to do.

    There is a long shaft with a keyway goes through the vertical head and into the spindle of the machine. It lets you move the head in or out for position as needed. I had to make that too. If need, I have a print for it also.
     
  10. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Also, on the table you have socket head cap screws for the gib screws. I found it better to use set screws and locknuts. They don't stick out so much and get in the way.the second screw hole in from the left should have a bolt with a handle to lock the table. Mine was missing so I use a SHCS in that spot.

    That is a beautiful machine and looks like it is in excellent condition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  11. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Mark,
    Your base plate is looking good.
    dgehricke
     
  12. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks Mark and Dghericke. Your suggestions and comments, and the drawing are very useful. I'll make up the handle to lock the gibs. Actually the handle that locks the support arm fits the table gib nuts, so it will be a good pattern. I do have the shaft that connects to the machine spindle. It's very hard to align and seat properly - the eccentric ring is a bit sticky and doesn't adjust well. So gave up last night after half hour messing with it. Still need to figure this out...

    The paint came out well and the machine itself seems tight and smooth on all the machined surfaces. I've got a little clashing noise from the vertical leadscrew where the bevel gear linked to the handwheel turns. But it operates smoothly so will try loading it with a bit of lubriplate today - see if that helps it some.

    Tried to press the spindle out of the head last night. Shouldn't have messed with it. Only succeeded in pushing the threaded bushing containing the two lock nuts on the top end of the unit into the casting. Stupid.

    Now wondering how to extract it. Do you guys have any idea how to pull the shaft and bearings??

    Thanks again for your assistance. Looking forward to learning how to operate this thing.

    Glenn
     
  13. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Glenn,
    Which head are you talking about ? The Vertical attachment ? The double lock nuts on the vertical attachment are for limited adjustment of the pinion gear to mesh with the bronze spiral gear. The only thing on the vertical attachment is a shaft, a pinion and upper and lower bearings . There is also an adjusting screw on the front of the unit for adjusting the bronze spirial gear.If it was me I would loosen the 2 lock nuts on the spindle shaft and adjust the shaft back to center for the meshing of the gears so you can turn
    the driving arbor by hand.
    let me know how you make out, incidentally the head is universal in that it can be used in right hand mode or left hand mode for tilting to a set tool at what ever degree is needed
    up to 90 degrees.
    If I can be of more help will be happy to .
    Regards
    dgehricke
     
  14. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'm not sure what you did, but you should not need to remove the spindle from the vertical head if that is what you were trying to do. The gear inside floats to line up the shaft that goes through and into the machine spindle. It sounds as though ( if I understand) you need to put the shaft through the vertical head and see if it rotates smoothly with little to no backlash. If needed the two lock nuts on top of the vertical head spindle can be adjusted a little. Do NOT try to press that spindle out. ( the head can be disassembled without a press). If you mess that head casting up , it is irreplaceable. The last vertical head I saw ( and they are as rare as unicorn poop) sold for $600.

    Edit:

    The shaft will come out if you remove the two lock nuts. The shaft will go down through the bearings. Then the top bearing can be removed and also the bottom one if it didn't come out with the spindle. Do not disassemble the head unless you need to for some reason. The spindle also goes through the worm gear inside.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  15. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I think I have a drawing of the head parts, but it will be a couple days before I can get to them. ( screwed my phone up yesterday. Waiting for the new one and need it to get to my files.)
     
  16. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Glenn,
    Here is some info on how to set up the Vertical attachment GOOD INFO its a PDF the other is using the vertical head and horizontal jobs also a good article, it opens in Open Office from Apache if your on a Mac if Windows is your system it should open in any Microsoft Office software.
    Later
    dgehricke
     

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  17. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks guys. I got the two lock nuts back in position on the shaft (vertical head) and adjusted the bearings , which had moved an inch or less out of the casting So all ok now on that front. I had no idea what the two lock nuts actually did - so good to know they allow minor gear alignment. Also fitted a collet and located the vertical head draw bar. Works like a charm.

    Mark, Wayne sent me a parts list and drawing of the vertical head - so Iam good on that item... Still very ackward to install - I need to make up a spanner wrench to pull the eccentric around the shaft to adjust alignment. That and cleaning up the overarm support shaft so the eccentric doesn't bind might make it move easier.

    Didn't break anything, machine still all original. A good day all in all.

    Regards
    Glenn
     
  18. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Good to hear.

    The way I install my vertical head is to put the shaft in the head and install it in the spindle. At this point the head is installed in the spindle but the eccentric bushing is out of the plate. I simply rotate the bushing to where it goes in the plate. ( the bolt for the head tilt is slightly loose at this point). Snug everything and rotate the machine spindle by hand. If it turns smoothly , you are good. If there is a tight spot , you adjust the eccentric until it rotates smoothly. This only takes a few minutes.

    On my head, that flat ridge running vertically on the head sets the head square when I put a square against it. That is why it is there. Makes quick setup. It should be close if no one messed with the ridge. ( just don't paint that ridge)
     
  19. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks Mark and dgheriecke, Mark, I will try your method in the morning. I looked through a bunch of collets I got with my OD grinder last year- and found half dozen 3C collets of various sizes mixed in with the tooling - so a bit of a windfall. cleaning them up tonight in evaporust to see what shape they are in, then will grind a tenth or so and polish them up nice. also have a bunch of fairly decent horizontal cutters that came with an old Van Norman 12 that is next on my list to restore, so more than enuf tooling all told to get started with the Burke. Plus I need the Burke to make some parts for the VN.

    My last chore is to find some 140 wt gear lube for the motor. Nothing in town today- so probably have to look down in what is left of the old industrial supply neighborhood in downtown Seattle.

    BTW, just saw your latest post on your thread about machining your mounting plate for the vert head. really nice looking work.

    Thanks for your assistance thus far!

    Glenn
     

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