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Height gage help

Discussion in 'A BEGINNER'S FORUM (Learn How To Machine Here!)' started by Joe P., Apr 16, 2017.

  1. Joe P.

    Joe P. United States Steel Registered Member

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    I just picked up a Brown & Sharpe vernier height gage. How do I make measurements that are less 1.040" since the gage is bottomed out[​IMG][​IMG]


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  2. jlsmithseven

    jlsmithseven United States Active Member Active Member

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    Did you reset the counter, have a pic of what you mean?
     
  3. dlane

    dlane Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Red x s , search posting pics on tapatalk so pics work
     
  4. Joe P.

    Joe P. United States Steel Registered Member

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    IMG_2695.JPG IMG_2696.JPG

    I hope this works.


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  5. jlsmithseven

    jlsmithseven United States Active Member Active Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the caliper be flat, so it touches the bottom of your table. Like these ones are the ones we have in class.

    My best guess is....the measuring face you have should be lowered on the extension. It looks like the post holding it is upside down too? I'm sure others more knowledgeable will be able to help.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Joe P.

    Joe P. United States Steel Registered Member

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    That's what I thought, but with the gage bottomed out all the way it reads 1.040" and with scriber the way it is picture that is the true height. With the scriber mounted below the arm the actual height is .375" IMG_2697.JPG

    It just seems like an odd dimension to add 1.040" under the work in order to zero the gage, unless I am looking at this from the wrong perspective.


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  7. T Bredehoft

    T Bredehoft Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I believe you need what is called in the above illustration, a "Probe Extension." That would bring the contact point down to the surface plate. Perhaps you can make an adjustment on the vernier scale to zero it out by loosening the two slotted screws.

    Edit, correct typo
     
  8. Tim9

    Tim9 United States Iron Registered Member

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    Most of the height gauges I've looked at on Flea Bay are all similar....And yet the accessories are not interchangeable. The offset of one model Brown and Sharpe may connect to a Starrett gauge...But it will not function as designed.
    It looks like that one does not have the proper offset for said Vernier Height gauge. I've also seen quite a few gauges for sale which were missing all of the accessories. That's common since the sellers are usually people who are clueless about machinist gauges and devices.
     
  9. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    It is only meant to measure down to 1.000", note that the scale ends there. There are offset attachments that let it go down the other inch, though then you need to remember to subtract an inch. You can also use a 1-2-3 block or a gage block to take up the difference. I think you also have other problems with the setup as well. It should go down to 1.000", not 1.040". The sliding portion may not be correct for your stand (Frankengage.)
     
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  10. jlsmithseven

    jlsmithseven United States Active Member Active Member

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    Agree with Bob Korves....
     
  11. Joe P.

    Joe P. United States Steel Registered Member

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    Bob, I thought of that but there's another twist to the story. I bought a package of tools that came with 2 identical height gages. They are both the same way, so I think it is unlikely they are both "frankengages".


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  12. kvt

    kvt Active User Active Member

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    If they came from the same place they may both be frakengages, and in another package was the other shafts that these heads fit, and the heads that fit your shafts. Any should be able to be adjusted to Zero out on the number, Since this starts at 1 then it should zero out there, In fact the adjustment should let it go down just a bit more as it should allow you to adjust for wear on the bottom. Just from my observations.
     
  13. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Here is a scan of what I think is your gage from a vintage BS catalogue.
    Not surprisingly it suggests that Bob Korves is correct.

    Daryl
    MN
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The scriber should mount at the top of the bar, not the bottom. That is the reference surface. Put it on the top and measure something, and see what it reads. If the scriber is at the bottom, it's height influences the measurement.
     
  15. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Just like in the pic from the BS catalog.

    Daryl
    MN
     
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  16. Joe P.

    Joe P. United States Steel Registered Member

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    With scriber mounted on top, whatever I measure that is at least 1.040" is accurately indicated in the vernier. That and the photos from the B&S catalog make me believe that is the proper orientation.


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  17. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Do the screws holding the vernier loosen and allow you to adjust the vernier slide to 1.000?

    Daryl
    MN
     
  18. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    All I can say then is to grind .040" off of the bottom of the slide, or accept it the way it is.
     
  19. WoodBee

    WoodBee Netherlands Active Member Active Member

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    Just a wild guess, but:
    What happens when you switch the slides between both gages?
    They might have been switched in the past?

    Peter
     
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  20. Joe P.

    Joe P. United States Steel Registered Member

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    Peter, I thought of that and switched slides with the same results. Believe me I spent a lot of time and experimenting before I posted here. I never used a height gage before, the concept looks easy and straight forward but after a while I doubted myself and thought I was approaching this wrong. I could live with the 1" offset, but the .040" is ridiculous and will have to get ground off like Bob suggested.


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  21. EmilioG

    EmilioG United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Check Ebay: There are some really nice Mitutoyo dial height gages for sale that come up often.
    (I know it doesn't help your current situation but if you're looking for something else, consider Mitutoyo dial HG's).
    I recently bought a Mit 6" dial HG in crisp condition with wood case. The Mit 509 series are excellent.
    Very accurate and well made. 6" and 12" dial HG models available on Ebay. (no longer made, discontinued).
     
  22. jamby

    jamby United States Active Member Active Member

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    Umm I am probably not reading this right but when I got paid to lean on a granite slab we always sat short stuff on a 1-2-3 block and against an angle plate set off the block and scratched em.

    Jim
     
  23. TakeDeadAim

    TakeDeadAim H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The catalog photo is not the height gauge the OP has. In the catalog the beam is mounted at the back of the base. The posted photo has the beam mounted more toward the center of the base. It would be my suspicion that you may have a gauge made up of parts that were not intended to go together. Many of the parts interchange between models and brands. Is there a model number on the tool anywhere? Finding out what you have and getting more information about what parts it is supposed to have may help.
     
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  24. Joe P.

    Joe P. United States Steel Registered Member

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    It is a 12" model 585. There are several for sale on eBay, they all look identical as mine. There seems to be an offset scriber available at one probably to allow measurements under 1". The height gage reads accurately when I compared it to 2,3,4 and 5 micrometer standards. My plan is to somehow remove 0.040" and make an offset scriber.


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  25. RJSakowski

    RJSakowski H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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  26. WoodBee

    WoodBee Netherlands Active Member Active Member

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    RJSakowski,
    Bob didn't advise to grind the bottom of the gage, but rather the underside of the slide. This will not influence the readings, but will allow it to go lower.

    Peter
     
  27. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I personally would never grind the bottom of the slide to get the .040". I would classify that as butchering a nice old tool. But people look at things differently, and if that is a requirement to the owner, then it would certainly be possible and would achieve the desired results. Leave the base and the vertical column alone, just carefully grind the bottom of the slide by about .050", IF there will be room for the arm where the scriber is mounted to clear the base after grinding it. There is some clearance visible in the photos, but unsure if it is enough. I would absolutely not grind on the arm that holds the scriber for fear of warpage. We are not talking about taking the slide to a bench grinder, either. I could do a nice clean job in a few minutes on my surface grinder, if I was into that sort of thing.
     
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  28. rgray

    rgray Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Wouldn't you want to unpin the column if possible and surface grind the top of the base?
     
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  29. Joe P.

    Joe P. United States Steel Registered Member

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    That's along the lines I was thinking. It would be clean and appear unaltered.


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  30. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I would not unpin the base. I think that is asking for trouble when putting it back together with keeping the column vertical and the joint tight. A loose or crooked column height gage is scrap metal...
     

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