Have added a larger lathe, now what?

[Al Slitter]

I have just purchase a used lathe that that will I hope, replace my 7"x 12" lathe.
My new lathe at least to me is an older 16" x 40" TA Shing lathe made in Taiwan about thirty years ago.
It was moved to my shop last night, what a job as it weighs in at around 2,000 pounds. A bit of a difference from my Seig 2 lathe.
This lathe came from a local machine shop where it was used occasionally in their tool shop area.
Basically there was or is no tooling with the purchasing, it has a 8" three jaw chuck, a huge spanner type of wrench to lock the locking collar in place
for the chuck, a live center and a MT4 key-less drill chuck for the tail stock.

Ok, now let me start with a few questions?
My 7 x12 lathe has been adapted to hold a AXA-100 QCTP holder, I have now around 10 holders for this tool with mostly small tooling (5/16") HSS and carbide
cutters. I also have a set of 10mm carbide insert tooling.

Is it reasonable and or advisable to move this tool post and tooling to the new lathe or should I acquire a new BXA or larger unit to use as my base for holders and cutters.
Currently the lathe comes with a large Lantern type tool post but I want to upgrade to a QCTP.
With this size of lathe what size of cutting tools should I purchase in the future, I realize that the QCTP that I settle on will set the maximum size I can use..

I also have a problem with the 8" three Jaw chuck, it works very well, however the problem is that it did not come with a set of outside jaws only the inside jaws.
What is the best way to try and find a set of jaws that will work?

The lathe is powered by a 3HP 3-Phase motor and as I only have 220 volt single phase available in my shop I intend on buying a 3KW Variable Frequency Drive Inverter which is supposedly
capable of running a 4HP motor. I have been advise that it is wise to allow 25% or more of overhead with these electrical devises.

I also intend on purchasing a new 4-Jaw independent chuck for the lathe, my question is what size should I buy? The 8 inch chuck that is on the lathe sure looks small.

Well that is enough questions for the thank you in advance for your input!

 

[Uglydog]

Sorry I can't be more helpful in responding to your questions.
I tend toward old iron 1930-1950's.
However, I commend you for making the move to relatively much bigger.
It's not my intent to disparage imports or smaller lathes.
Merely to commend you for making a change.
While exciting, making a significant change can be very intimidating, and expensive.
Congratulations, it says something about the machinist.
Bold.
Congratulations.

Daryl
MN

 

[Chiptosser]

I think that you would be better off, going to the larger tool post. You have a machine capable of much heavier work loads, take advantage of it.
Do you plan on adding more equipment later on?

I am still trying to figure out why so many people on this list is leaning towards VFD's. I have one for my drill press, all my other equipment has gear boxes.

 

[mce5802]

Congratulations on your new lathe. You made a big step up in size, but you will find (imho) that once you get it tooled you probably will do even your smallest parts on it. I would start over with a bigger toolpost and holders. CXA would be the size recommended for a 16", or CA, but that would be more $. My SB 13" came with an AXA with a riser block, I replaced it with a BXA. I still use mostly 3/8 hs in toolholders, it's cheaper that way. I'd say a 10" 3 jaw and a 12" four jaw would be big enough for anything you're gonna chuck. Also I use a 3 phase motor wired to run on two legs with 220v and it produces a third phase to run the machine. Cheap alternative to a phase converter or vfd. I'm no expert I'm just putting in my two cents.

 

[hman]

I also have a problem with the 8" three Jaw chuck, it works very well, however the problem is that it did not come with a set of outside jaws only the inside jaws.
What is the best way to try and find a set of jaws that will work?

First off, my very sincere apologies if I'm suggesting something that's already obvious to you ... but might your jaws be reversible? If they have socket head screws visible from the front, they can be unscrewed and reversed.

I only suggest this because it's something I've seen on many larger lathe chucks.

If the jaws are not reversible, I'd be hard pressed to even suggest where/how to get additional jaws. They're often unique to the chuck. Does your chuck have any kind of logo or brand name? If so, you can try a web search for the manufacturer. Otherwise, you may just have to purchase an entire new chuck.

Best wishes in your quest ... and congratulations on finding a larger lathe!

 

[Karl_T]

I'll second the 10" three jaw,12" four jaw, CXA toolholder. The VFD is a GREAT idea for this machine.

You can find a way to riser block your old toolholder ( I assume you may be broke after robbing the piggy bank to get this lathe) while you shop for CXA. You'll also want to move up to 1/2 and 3/4 tooling. I'd suggest you look into the Manchester insert cutoff tool system. Here's a quick example http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/251738717808?lpid=82 This machine is built rigid enough for negative rake carbide inserts. The best bang/buck is CNMG with 1/2" IC. Just the first of 4000 hits on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-CARBIDE-...858?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2edac9d0aa Don't forget eBay is your friend retooling this old gal.

It IS possible to make your own soft jaws for the small chuck you already have. ( I assume you may be broke after robbing the piggy bank to get this lathe) You need a mill and rotary table, or CNC to make it way easier. I've done it - see piggy bank problem - but its not real easy.

You're going to LOVE having a real machine.

Karl

 

[Al Slitter]

Thank you every one for all of the fine replies.
I would like to comment on why I went this route with a commercial precision lathe it is in fact over kill for an armature like me.
The reason that I did it was driven by the flaky electronics in the Sieg 2 lathes. I live in Thailand and had an electrical spike here
that took out the fuse system I had set up to counter this and it cause my lathe power board to fail. I spent over one month trying to find someone here
to fix it which I finally did and after one month they advised me that they could no do anything for me and suggest I buy a new lathe. To me this is crazy thinking,
I got the board and housing back and decided to use a meter and check out the various controls on the board all of the DC control components seemed to be fine so I thought I thought I
would check out the emergency stop etc on the AC side. When the unit was removed from the lathe the controller was fine it was just dead. I plugged in the lathe an Boom,
I quickly removed the AC plug but of course the damage was done. This was caused by the Thai fellow wiring up the circuit board improperly to the controller board.
I then contacted a fellow in the US who repairs these board and I sent to him the board and housing as I did not know the proper wiring for it as I did not remove the board. Three weeks
later he contacted me and advised me what I had thought, the circuit board was wired incorrectly and this caused major damage to the circuit board. He tried to repair it but the damage was so extensive
that it would function for a short time the go into an over-load load condition and shut down. We found a new board at the Little Machine Shop and have now ordered it, it will be tested then installed by
this fellow in the US to the controller board housing and then tested again and after it checks out it will be sent back to me. During out many e-mails he advised me that he gets multiple boards per week
from people as this is a real weak spot with these lathes. As it stands I have been with out a lathe of for around 4 months now and I do not expect to receive back the tested unit for another month yet.
The result is I can not rely on this small lathe to function long term here in Thailand so I used this excuse to look at a larger lathe.

OK, back to answering you questions.
Why use a VFD, the reason does not have to do with needing or want voltage control over the motor it has to do with the ability to have single phase AC power conversion to 3-Phase power.
My new lathe has a oil bath transmission in the head stock which allows me speeds from 80 RPM to 1,800 RPM. using the leaver on the lathe.

I agree that the best option is a larger QCTP the AXA version would look like a puny little thing on the lathe. I had looked at the BXA version but one does not get much more in size for the price.
Here again the BXA will look disproportionate on this lathe. While I have small tooling due to me having a very small lathe I will start looking at larger sizes in the 1/2" to 1" range.

In an effort to keep this short I will address the outside jaws and the size of a new 4-jaw chuck. The out side jaws on my lathe are one piece jaws and cannot be switched, the jaws as you know on a 3-jaw chuck use a scroll system
and thus require two set of jaws. Regarding the 4-Jaw chuck you must have been reading my mind as I think a 10" 4-Jaw chuck might be the best solution although heavier and pricier. If in the future the lack of the second set of jaws
cause and issue I would most like go with a 10 " 3- Jaw chuck. I have seen on E-Bay jaws for sale and from that I have read one can go this way but you have to know the distance on the scroll.

Regarding a riser block to hold the AXA holder I will most likely just use the existing lantern style of holder for a short while that came with this lathe, the key is getting the several shims required to raise my existing tooling to center but I had a large milling machine
that is well tooled and I can make these up so that I will be on center. However a CXA size would be a good option long term or something else that might come available.

Well that seems to be about it for what t I think I need to do about this lathe and I am glad that your comments have allowed me think through this situation again. Lastly pricing is an issue as I am retired, I had to have the machine shop
whom I purchased the lathe from make up a fake a bill of sale for me to keep my wife from going over board with the cost of the machine. I tried to explain to her that an identical machine to mine had sold in California for nearly $10,000 US
and that I got a good deal. Women????

Best Regards

Al

 

[mce5802]

:rofl: lol. I know EXACTLY what you mean. I've stretched the truth a time or two myself. Again, look into using an old three phase motor for a converter if cost is an issue. You would need probably a ten horsepower or so to run a three horse motor. Simple to wire up, I have a capacitor in the circuit on a pushbutton for starting the converter motor. I'm sure a vfd would be an improvement but one for every machine would cost a fortune.

 

[Al Slitter]

Hello mce5802;
I have thought about going the rotary 3-Phase converter route, it is basically fairly simple just a large 3-Phase motor and some large capacitors
preferably oiled filled and some wiring. The VFD route as you know provides cleaner 3-Phase power which will not shorten motor life as much. Regarding
my other tools they are all single phase units running on 220 volts 50 Hertz.
Many people have purchase Chinese VFD's and have been happy with them. I will change the wiring on my motor to 220 volt 3-Phase from the current configuration which
is 380 Volts. I would prefer going with the higher voltage as it is more efficient however the VFD which has 380 Volt out put is more than twice the price of the same unit
that produces 220 Volts so I can I suppose live with that.

Thanks again

Al

 

[Scruffy]

Just wondering. Why would a 10 hp motor be needed to power a 3 hp motor? My phase converter motor is 15 hp And I have ran my lathe 10 hp, and my mill 5 hp at the same time under load and never had a problem.
Thanks ron