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Harrison L5 Lathe Restoration

hermetic

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#31
TBH I would clean up the splined shaft and make a new bush if there was a lot of play, looks like it hasn't been regularly oild and swarf has been allowed to enter through the oilway. I am not seeing anything wrong with this machine that a bit of hand refitting wouldn't cure. Cross slides are always worn, especially the nut, ang gib strips can be checked for flatness, cleaned up and re adjusted, and V ways blued up and high spots removed quite easily. Takes a bit of time and patience. As you said, you are not making parts for NASA and all older lathes have wear, but can still make accurate parts. The accuracy comes from a good operator who knows his machine. Look on the score marks as oil reservoirs! Remember also that cutting puts downward pressure on the carriage unless you are using an inverted tool and running in reverse, so upward play on the carriage is not that important, and fairly easy to cure. I have just had a bit of a "go" at my Colchester Student, and it is definitely better for it, as I found loose parts in both gearboxes loose in the oil, and took quite a lot of play out of the slides, but it was more accurate than I am before I started on it! Getter done and make parts!
 

Laytonnz

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#32
TBH I would clean up the splined shaft and make a new bush if there was a lot of play, looks like it hasn't been regularly oild and swarf has been allowed to enter through the oilway. I am not seeing anything wrong with this machine that a bit of hand refitting wouldn't cure. Cross slides are always worn, especially the nut, ang gib strips can be checked for flatness, cleaned up and re adjusted, and V ways blued up and high spots removed quite easily. Takes a bit of time and patience. As you said, you are not making parts for NASA and all older lathes have wear, but can still make accurate parts. The accuracy comes from a good operator who knows his machine. Look on the score marks as oil reservoirs! Remember also that cutting puts downward pressure on the carriage unless you are using an inverted tool and running in reverse, so upward play on the carriage is not that important, and fairly easy to cure. I have just had a bit of a "go" at my Colchester Student, and it is definitely better for it, as I found loose parts in both gearboxes loose in the oil, and took quite a lot of play out of the slides, but it was more accurate than I am before I started on it! Getter done and make parts!
The issue is somebody has greased the oil ports and it's turned into a Grinding paste

I was going to machine the shaft down and make a new bush but I realized today while measuring it I can't because the splined piece of the shaft won't fit over the new bush... I priced some selves to press on but I'm looking at around $100 for the selves !!

Can i just turn down a piece of mild steel to sleve the shaft or does it need to be hardend steel?
 

Laytonnz

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#33
The lathes uk website . Tony writes that the hardened bed was introduced on all the L5's in the mid 1950's . Can you run a file over a edge to check it ?
You might have to learn scraping ! I'm really not a expert in any way . I think the gib is tapered - Hmm might be tricky to repair that .
The L5 I have came off a ship , it had a weird DC motor on it.

BTW a guy on ebay uk had a L5 top slide
The bed definitely isn't hardend a file bites in fairly nicely

I would like to learn how to scrape!
 

hermetic

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#35
Mild steel would be fine, it isn't doing 10000 rpm! What about getting it metalsprayed, that would take it back to the original size. I think that is what I would do.
Phil
 

Laytonnz

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#36
Mild steel would be fine, it isn't doing 10000 rpm! What about getting it metalsprayed, that would take it back to the original size. I think that is what I would do.
Phil
Metal spray or hard chrome would be the ticket, but with one wage feeding four mouths and a mortgage its just not going to happen!

Mild steel it will be!

I've already turned off the damaged area, ill shink a sleve on and turn back down..
 

Laytonnz

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#37
That is rather unusual, you must have a early one with unhardened bed.

There is a chap in Melbourne who was running scraping classes , he ran about 6 classes .

This forum may be good for you http://metalworkforums.com/forum.php
unfortunately, im in new zealand . . ill check the website out abit later on thanks.

While in buying a piece of bronze a local engineering firm offerd me a job! haha i wish i could take it but cant afford the wage drop at the moment.. ill just keep going back for more material and hope the opportunity will be there in the future!
 

Laytonnz

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#38
IMG-20161105-WA0000_zpsxjpki8id.jpe
Cleaned up the damaged area
20161106_182448_zpsai0zg6hn.jpg
New bronze bush, wooo first thing I've made. The 4 jaw took me about 15 minutes to indicate in haha... practice makes perfect?

This is going to be a slow, steep learning curve on how to use a lathe.
 
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Laytonnz

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#40
Well its been awhile but im still chipping away at it when i have time ive so far finished replacing all bronze bushs in gearbox and apron and made a new tailstock bronze nut and locking "cotter"? for the quill, i need to ream the taper but i might wait untill its all back together









I also got the damn backplate off the spindle what a mission!!!

mixed 50/50 acetone and ATF applied over several days while hanging a bucket of cast iron off a bar about 3 meters long and using heat each day when it came down it came with one hell of a bang!

anyhow... slowly but surely i will get there. needed to do something else for awhile so i built a 2x72 belt grinder.
 
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roverguy

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#41
You have been busy , very nice work.

I haven't pulled the headstock apart but there is a guy on another forum who did a full rebuild of a L5. You should be able to find it easily if you do a google search.

How did you make the new bronze nut, it looks great ?
 

Laytonnz

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#42
Thanks i pressed a steel sleve on then turned OD turned ID used a 10 tpi 1/2 inch left hand acme tap with a homemade spring loaded center





Sorry, i dont know what happend it posted 4x i tried to delete 3 of them then they all went and there was 2 posts>!!>?!?!!
 
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roverguy

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#44
That's a interesting machine you have - the tappng job on it turned out well.

I like my L5, its a clunky old thing but its solid and accurate too .

Ive been making some valve guides for a old Morris 6 cyl. engine.
 

roverguy

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#45
That's a interesting machine you have - the tappng job on it turned out well.

I like my L5, its a clunky old thing but its solid and accurate too .

Ive been making some valve guides for a old Morris 6 cyl. engine.
 

Laytonnz

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#48
Well I'm feeling abit defeated now, I started on the compound slide and found a crack... also the headstock gears are in need of desperate attention and or replacement. .. !!!!

The headstock is quite daunting to look at, I swear the more time I put into this lathe the more I question if it's worth it!!



Ps don't worry about all the smhoo in the headstock it's not metal or anything its mostly suicideal bugs..
 

Laytonnz

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#49
Today's progress,

This shaft is pretty sagged but I can't afford a new one at the moment so I machined the damage off, filed the teeth and gave a light clean up



Then I proceeded to strip the rest of the headstock the top shaft is stuck due to a stubborn taper pin so it can stay there next will be striping some paint then a big clean up!

 

Laytonnz

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#50
An hour or so with some paint stripper it's proper industrial stuff from work in one go it has removed 2 layers of what looked like acrylic and a layer of the original epoxy type paint and the filler




While I was stripping the paint I noticed the headstock is slightly cocked to one side would this be factory? By the looks of it nobody had ever been in the headstock so it can't have been unbolted and moved I know this thing has had a decent crash looking at the compound slide... what do you guys think?

 
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roverguy

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#51
Are you replacing the headstock bearings ? The headstocks on these were never quiet , apparently this is due to the high nickel content in the gears .

Your lucky to have the gap bed model , makes it a more useful machine I think. I bought a faceplate with the same thread as the L5 spindle but I discovered its too large to fit my L5, it would fit yours OK as you have the gap bed.
 

Laytonnz

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#52
Are you replacing the headstock bearings ? The headstocks on these were never quiet , apparently this is due to the high nickel content in the gears .

Your lucky to have the gap bed model , makes it a more useful machine I think. I bought a faceplate with the same thread as the L5 spindle but I discovered its too large to fit my L5, it would fit yours OK as you have the gap bed.
I'm not 100% sure if I will replace them or not, ive put my feelers out and sent a few emails for prices.. so I'll wait and see the bearings seem to be in fair shape can't feel any defects at all with a finger or finger nail they aren't "notchy" at all seem to turn ok with decent preload.

The guy at the bearing shop hadn't ever heard of precision bearings this size he also said that precision bearings of the 60s would be of.similar quality to a standard bearing now... he may have just been trying to make the sale but he had a fair point that they are all made to a fairly high standard. .. they come up as dumb truck bearings he said..

Part no: 387/382A
: 387/382B
Timken taper roller bearings..
 

roverguy

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#53
The headstock casting does look strange , the uneven way it sits . I would remove the headstock casting and see whats going on underneath. maybe the quality inspector at the factory had a bad day ! It's not a requirement to fit those high precision bearings, they cost a small fortune and you wont really notice any benefit . I would use the off the self variety bearings myself.
 

Laytonnz

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#54
The headstock casting does look strange , the uneven way it sits . I would remove the headstock casting and see whats going on underneath. maybe the quality inspector at the factory had a bad day ! It's not a requirement to fit those high precision bearings, they cost a small fortune and you wont really notice any benefit . I would use the off the self variety bearings myself.
Does yours sit dead nuts perfect? i read that they went to alot of efford to align the headstock and to shim the bed to the base so if its not needed i wont touch it because im unsure how to re align the headstock! maybe i could use a paint pen and draw some lines to put it back in the same place if it all checks out..?

the headstock bearings where $90 for the race and 60 for the inner bearing from the local shop.
 

roverguy

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#55
I had a look at my L5, I cannot see the end of the headstock because the end belt covers are in the way .

I would not be concerned about removing the head casting from the bed, the V ways in the bed will align the head casting within .0005" you can remove it and the accuracy should not be changed , in theory.

Have a look on EBAY for the beaings , you will pick them up cheap .
 

roverguy

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#56
I had a look at my L5, I cannot see the end of the headstock because the end belt covers are in the way .

I would not be concerned about removing the head casting from the bed, the V ways in the bed will align the head casting within .0005" you can remove it and the accuracy should not be changed , in theory.

Have a look on EBAY for the bearings , you will pick them up cheap .
 

Laytonnz

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#57
I had a look at my L5, I cannot see the end of the headstock because the end belt covers are in the way .

I would not be concerned about removing the head casting from the bed, the V ways in the bed will align the head casting within .0005" you can remove it and the accuracy should not be changed , in theory.

Have a look on EBAY for the bearings , you will pick them up cheap .
I pulled the headstock tonight and it's not actually square, thats maybe just the way it is!

I did stone the headstock ways before reinstalling and there where large burrs where the headstock bolts down, next I'll have to figure a cunning plan to somehow clean the inside of the ways..
 

roverguy

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#58
When you say its not sitting square ? Is it sitting out of alignment to the bed ?

The other possible cause is: its a headstock from another L5, somebody has changed it over . Do you know the history of it?

My L5 was in a navy ship , it has the MOD badge on the motor , the motor on it was a 240V DC motor, very odd . I changed it to a 2hp 3 phase with a VFD .
 

Laytonnz

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#59
When you say its not sitting square ? Is it sitting out of alignment to the bed ?

The other possible cause is: its a headstock from another L5, somebody has changed it over . Do you know the history of it?

My L5 was in a navy ship , it has the MOD badge on the motor , the motor on it was a 240V DC motor, very odd . I changed it to a 2hp 3 phase with a VFD .
I ment the casting isn't square, the headstock is definitely original.. it looks to be sitting square to the ways.
 

Laytonnz

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#60
Been waiting for bearings to arrive, I ended up geting 3 precision bearings for the price of 2



I also made a new bushing for the clutch shaft, the old one had over 0.40 mm of slop some fool used grease that had turned hard as rock blocking the oil ports i just need to put some grooves into the ID Of the bushing for oil.

I'll attach a dremel to the tool post I think. . Havnt decided.

I faced some of the clutch parts that had some wear also

Next is electrical, then paint, and work on the taper turning attachment while paint is going hard.
 
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