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G0768 Or G4000?

Discussion in 'GRIZZLY INDUSTRIAL INC.' started by armytbone, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    Hi everyone, first real post here. Enjoying a little machining on a Sherline has led to some headaches with size issues, so I'm ready to buy a bigger bench top lathe.

    I'll be turning mostly brass rod and Delrin rod, 7-8 inches in length for most work. I imagine some longer work might be necessary sometime, but only on other projects that I dream up. For now, my focus is on brass and plastic. Occasionally I'll turn steel to make reamers or other cutting tools, but again, length shouldn't exceed more than 10 inches.

    A good compound slide is a must. Eventually I'll upgrade to a quick change tool post. I will have a need to chuck up pieces about 1.375" diameter to drill/ream the end.

    I narrowed my choices down to the Grizzly G0768 and the G4000. Same price. What are the real differences? The G4000 is much heavier yet has similar size capacities. Accessories are comparable, as are most of the specifications. Why is the G4000 130 pounds heavier?

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks in advance!
     
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  2. GarageWrench

    GarageWrench H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hey armytbone, there both comparable in size, and given the size of both there are limits, if you can live with those limits I would go for the variable speed of the G0768, that is a great feature when making different cuts on the same piece of stock. Also like that you can slow that down to a lower feed speed and rpm.

    Thats my two cents, peace and grace man.
     
  3. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    Thanks for pointing out that the 0768 is variable speed! I missed it. That would explain some of the weight difference as the 4000 has the gearbox attached. Great point! Appreciated.

    On a side note, I was in the Westland area last summer. Played trombone as part of the fireworks concerts at Greenfield Village. Probably do it again this summer!
     
  4. GarageWrench

    GarageWrench H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Im ten minutes from Greenfield Village, one of Henry Ford's masterpieces, people come there from all over the world. I love that place!

    I have an Craftsman 12x36, and to change speeds I need to change the belts on step pulleys'. (the G4000 has a gear box witch is very nice also). Its a pain sometime, and I'm no electrician but, I believe it would take a lot of money to convert to variable speed, and its also only 110 volt so don't think I can.

    Two things I would point out from that lathe is the lack of power do to the 110 volt and its feed rate is to fast, even at its slowest setting along with the speed (rpm). I guess thats the reason I would choose the G0768 over the G4000.

    With that said, it gets the job done. Im saving for the PM1340GT :)
     
  5. David VanNorman

    David VanNorman United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    If it was my dime I would go with the G4000 It is heaver built and you can cut a wider range of threads. Also I try to stay away from variable speed machines as I would think they might be more trouble. Just my two cents.
     
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  6. dave2176

    dave2176 United States Active User Active Member

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    Do the G4000. Quick change gearbox, power cross feed. In my not so humble opinion of course. :cool:
     
  7. ch2co

    ch2co United States Grumpy Old Man H-M Supporter-Premium

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    G4000. just like dave2167 says, and my opinion isn't humble, just grumpy

    CHuck the grumpy old guy
     
  8. tomh

    tomh Active Member Active Member

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    G0768 = 8" x 16"
    G4000 = 9 x 19" = 1" more swing 3'' longer bed length
    the 4000 is a bigger and beefier lathe.
    Any time you can go with a bigger lathe with longer bed go for it, you will always benefit from it.
    I don't know your $$$$ or needs so its hard to suggest anything, but if finances allow it I suggest the 10" x 30" or 11x26 size because it fits in the middle of the road not to big not to little. Most true quick change gear boxes on newer import lathes start on 11 & up lathes.
    Hope you find what you are looking for and good luck.:encourage:
     
  9. tmarks11

    tmarks11 Active User Active Member

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    Also think about the G0602 10x22. That is a well liked model among hobbyists.

    Given the choice of G0768 and G4000, I would actually go with the G0768. Big isn't always better.

    1. The 8x14 and 8x16 seem to get much better reviews (historically) than the 9x19 lathe. The start of that was Bob Bertrand (Lathemaster), who first imported the 8x14 lathe about 15 years ago and gained quite a following who claimed it was more rigid than the 9x19.
    2. Yes, the 8x16 has no QCGB. But the partial QCGB on the G4000 still requires a lot of gear swapping.
    3. The DC motor on the G0768 will give you less vibration.
    4. The speed range is much better (low speed of 50 rpm on the G0768 is a lot more friendly for threading than the 130 on the G4000).

    But I would still think about the G0602 if I were you.
     
  10. abrace

    abrace United States Active Member Active Member

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    I was looking at the G0602 myself, then I got talked into bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and ended up with the G4003G. Looking at it on the shop floor on the pallet it certainly looks like it is more than I need...but time will tell!
     
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  11. tmarks11

    tmarks11 Active User Active Member

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    Nope. It is just the right size (for now). If you got room and budget, going for a 12x36 lathe makes a lot of sense (power, rigidity, full QCGB). But if you don't have room, the G0602 is a decent choice. Heavy enough to do some real work, but the partial QCGB sucks.
     
  12. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    I appreciate everyone's comments. Forgive my speedy response. I just had refractive eye surgery and reading/posting is proving to be difficult. I have my screen font turned up to the max and it's all still a bit fuzzy!

    The reason I picked those two Grizzlies to compare is they're the maximum footprint that I can afford in my basement workshop area. I have no garage, so my space is limited to the two workbenches I have already.

    The Sherline has proved to be a PITA when I need to turn 2 inch round stock. I have the riser blocks, but when I've turned the stock down enough, I take them out so I can use the compound slide more conveniently. The smallest inconsistency in my manipulation of the feeds is obvious on my finished product. That coupled with the limited size, small tools, and limited power of the Sherline led me to want a bigger lathe.

    I looked at the Littlemachineshop.com booth at Cabin Fever Expo, and decided against their smaller bench top lathe (7x16). The feed wheels felt gritty and it looked/felt small. I've also looked at the Micromark 7x16. Nearly a clone. Because of size, the biggest I can fit are the two Grizzlies 0768 and 4000.

    So, to those familiar with the two:

    Is the variable speed unit prone to wearing out? Is it quieter than the drive train in the 4000?

    They both have 3/4 hp motors, so do they produce similar torque?

    One of you mentioned a power carriage feed on the 4000. Isn't that the same function used in threading, so the 0768 should have it? Pardon my ignorance on that feature, since my experience is limited to the Sherline and a few brief encounters with a Smithy lathe/mill combo.

    I'm looking for a clear advantage of one over the other, really. Like I said, I'm turning 2" Delrin stock right now, tapering and boring it. Once I have the process repeatable I'll move to brass. The only steel I'll turn is in the making of tools to ream certain inside tapers, most likely A-2 tool steel, no more than 1/2 inch diameter. My working with tapers means I need a good compound cross slide.

    Those needs stated, does the extra weight and gearbox of the 4000 seal the deal, or does the variable speed control of the 0768 make it a better choice?

    Thanks a ton!
     
  13. tmarks11

    tmarks11 Active User Active Member

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    yeah, getting a 400# lathe down the steps to the basement is a back-killer. It goes back to buying what fits into the space you are using.

    The variable speed on the lathe is a DC motor & controller (not a cone pulley/belt arrangement like a varispeed drive on a bridgeport). Prone to wearing out? No. Prone to bring up? Not anymore, although the early models weren't reliable, but that problem was solved a few years ago, IIRC.

    Power carriage feed: not always the same as threading. Smaller mills use half nuts clamping on the lead screw to drive the carriage feed. Larger lathes have a separate feed rod for longitudinal feed, and the half-nut/leadscrew arrangement is used solely for threading. You can tell by looking at both machine (G0768 and G4000), that since they do not have a separate feed rod, that they both use the leadscrew for carriage drive.

    And both G4000 and HG0678 do have power carriage feed (by clamping the half nut). Neither has power cross feed (but you won't find that on a machine cheaper than $2000).

    So on to the battle:
    1. DC motor=lower spindle speed= G0678 WINS!
    2. Partial QCGB = G4000 WINS!
    3. Larger mass = G4000 wins (293 lbs vs 166 lbs).
    4. More threading combinations available = G4000 wins (27 inch and 11 metric vs. 15 and 12 for the other). That being said, both have all the most common threads (13, 16, 18, 20, 24, 32).
    5. More feed rates available= G4000 WINS (18 vs 3!). hmmm. Only 3 feed rates available on the G0768 (0.0037, 0.0068, 0.0071 ipr). What gives with that?

    ok, now I flip my vote. Given the choice of the two, I would go with the G4000. You can always retrofit it with a VFD and a 3 phase motor at some later date to get slower feed rates.

    Sure you can't find another friend to invite over to help you carry the G0602 (430 lbs) down your basement steps?
     
  14. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    Thanks again everyone! I'm going to order a G4000. It's decidedly the winner due to the extra weight and slightly bigger capacity. If you look at the published capacities, the 4000 has only a 1/2 inch or so more swing over carriage and bed. The spindles are the same and tailstocks very similar. It came down to the gearbox. Everything I've read leads me to believe that the variable speed motor and associated electronics might wear out more quickly than a gear set. It also seems as though more experience has been gained and shared in the world of the 4000 versus the 0768. Larger tool sizes too!

    Thanks again everyone! I might do a pictorial of receiving/unpacking/cleaning/assembly when it shows up.

    -Todd
     
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  15. dave2176

    dave2176 United States Active User Active Member

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    You better. Without pictures it never happened. :confused:
     
  16. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    Believe me, I know it! Went to a trade show last year, saw a new product, didn't take pics, made a post, and was berated because said product didn't exist. From delivery to set up, I'll document the arrival for everyone to see. I'll admit right now it will take some time. Grizzly told me a week or so for delivery. Lift truck service to the parking space in front of my townhouse. Manual labor from there!

    Mineral spirits or kerosene? Oddly enough I'm an Amsoil guy, so bottles of synthetic lubricants are everywhere. Don't ask.... I'm thinking mineral spirits for degrease then some quality synthetic lubes for the ways and gears. I've switched all of my reloading equipment to synthetic greases and everything is silky smooth.
     
  17. dave2176

    dave2176 United States Active User Active Member

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    We wouldn't berate you, just tease you until pictures were posted. We're all addicted to this stuff you know. WD40 is good for cleanup. Kerosene or mineral spirits too. For lube make sure it has enough stick that it doesn't wipe off easily. I use Vactra 2 on the lathe ways, open gear lube on open gears. I know there are a lot of synthetics with good properties.
     
  18. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    Finally the G4000 arrived. Because of the "blizzard" that shut down Maryland for a week, UPS freight couldn't deliver their backlog so my delivery got delayed by 4 days.

    Lift gate service to my parking space. b94de40e6ce80adf082c283c07980c7a.jpg

    Cracking open the crate revealed the drip pan, 4 jaw chuck, and plate bolted in separately. Two bolts held the machine to the pallet.

    2df184445ebd94a9a8f0faa495fe74e5.jpg

    A strong friend and I picked it up and hauled it down the stairs to my basement workshop.

    The cleaning ensued. I removed the carriage and compound and broke them down into individual parts, decreased with Amsoil Heavy Duty Degreaser (smells like oranges) and reassembled. Same with the tail stock. There was some hardened grease inside the tail stock taper, but it came out easily with a stainless brush.

    The biggest challenge was removing the hardened grease from the ways. The only product that worked was PB Blaster and a stainless brush. It looked like rust coming out of the grooves, but in the end, it's all clean.

    The chucks are still soaking in degreaser. I'll clean them with denatured alcohol tomorrow and reassemble them.

    5e03e3a421439f507f9ac597eedd6b12.jpg

    Overall, it's turning out to look pretty nice. Once projects are under way, I'll post more pics.

    Thanks for the advice!!

    -Todd


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  19. ch2co

    ch2co United States Grumpy Old Man H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Welcome aboard! Looks good sitting there on your tool cart. Remember to close the drawers whenever the lathe is running they are great swarf catchers.
    Come to this site for any and all questions, there are no stupid ones. There are many well seasoned machinists here who are happy to help out.
    Then there are a bunch of newbies, myself included, who, if we don't know will look in and maybe learn a thing or two from your question. For which
    we will owe our thanks to you. Just be careful, wear safety glasses and swarf away.

    CHuck the grumpy old guy
     
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  20. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    I ended up moving it to another bench, both for stability and for better lighting. It's all degreased and broken in according to the instructions.

    What I found:
    - missing middle cross slide gib adjustment pin (that is driven by the screw which is set by a nut)
    - paint flakes easily. Especially the drip pan.
    - many parts needed a touch from a fine file to remove chips that had not broken clean from the piece
    - tool bits should be 1/2 inch to be secured by the tool post bolts. My collection of 5/16 are too small and sit below center of the workpiece.
    - motor housing was pinging because it was being hit by a blade of the motor fan. Adjustment made, silent now.
    - Chuck handle that you use in conjunction with the spindle handle (both removable) was machined horribly and is not a square peg. It does not fit into the chuck, not by a long shot.
    - Rust on various parts. Most of it is innocuous surface rust. Nothing that has penetrated.
    - threads aren't smooth on all bolts and holes. It's hard to tell if the interference is from poor internal threading on subpar screws/bolts. I'm tempted to get a few from the local hardware store in a higher grade to replace the few that are terrible.
    - tailstock is very smooth in fit of taper and in feeding any tooling
    - carriage moves with ease with next to no play

    What I'm seeing that I'll be needing:
    - quick change tool post
    - 1/2 in bits
    - matching Grizzly tan (and green!) paint
    - lots of round stock

    I'm surprised by how quietly this machine runs. There is going to be a decently big learning curve versus the Sherline. That little thing had two feed wheels. More on the G4000. Now I have lots to keep my eyes on! And all of those tools need 1/4 shims to fit in my new tool post.

    Any ideas on an affordable QCTP? $100-125 is my target for a starter set.

    Also, the compound, even after cleaning and leadscrew adjustment, is stiff. If I retract the compound too far, it is very stubborn to re-engage the leadscrew threads.

    I'm envisioning a few initial mods to this machine:
    - bolt with handle to secure gear cover instead of allen head bolt; makes it toolless.
    - nut with handle to use for quick release tailstock instead of simple hex nut
    - file chuck handle to square for chuck removal
    - replace various nuts or bolts with better quality hardware

    Work safely and enjoy your shop time.

    -Todd
     
  21. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    Funny tidbit: the shipping manifest claimed this thing was 795 lbs! Umm, no. It's under 300, even with the pallet. Maybe Griz should reduce their shipping charge!
     
  22. planeflyer21

    planeflyer21 Active Member Active Member

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    That there is a very substantial difference in claimed weight!
     
  23. juiceclone

    juiceclone United States Active Member Active Member

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    Enjoy .... your comment about trips to the hardware store for "real" nuts and bolts is soooo familiar :>) But you will have a good piece of equipment when your "quality control" is completed. Think I got my QCTP on eBeast for around $70??.. had to mod it a bit to fit but good after that.
    Can't understand the weight thing ...definitely not kilograms or pounds ..griz may not know they are/being overcharged for shipping ??
     
  24. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Congratulations on your purchase. Go to Steve Bedair's 9 x 20 website (http://bedair.org/9x20.html). It's a great collection of mods and improvements that will make your lathe much more enjoyable and accurate.

    Tom S.
     
  25. tmarks11

    tmarks11 Active User Active Member

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    Recommend you do some shopping on mcmaster-carr for those bolts. Your local hardware store selection of metric fasteners might not be much better than what is already on the machine.
     
  26. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    I plan on ordering from McMaster Carr with a select of fasteners and such. My trip today netted me some taps and dies in the metric threads. The tiny compound gib and cross slide gib adjustment screws are 4-0.7 and most of the other stuff is 6-1.25 and 6-1.00. Just chasing the threads on the screws and holes smoothed a lot out of the adjustments. I also tapped the cross slide gib screw holes to full depth so I can just screw directly against the gib instead of pushing the pins, which one was missing anyway.

    Also ordered a new compound mount from A2Z.
     
  27. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A few years back I had a G4000 which was extensively modified, AKA improved. The adjustment screws pushing directly on the gib may cause it to lift. One of the mods I did was replace the cross slide gib pins with ball bearings. Worked for me.

    Tom S.
     
  28. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    Ball bearings! Sounds like a decent idea.

    Today I disassembled the compound, since it was on top and the first thing to remove. Using 300, 600, 1200, 1500, 2000, 4000 grit paper on a granite block, I polished all surfaces that ride against one another. That not only included dovetails but the side of the gib that touches the dovetail, the front side of the mounting plate, rear of compound handwheel, and rear of the nut that holds the wheel on. Chasing threads for the gib adjustment screws helped me fine tune the feel. Silky smooth now with no play.

    Next will be the cross slide. Much bigger job.

    I compare this to polishing the slide/frame fit on a 1911. Easy does it. Slow progress until it's just right.

    I found that using Spyderco stones helped to get inside the dovetails. To those who don't know, the Triangle Sharpener is one of my most used polishing tools.

    df7bc21e501ccaf081fe5d9c6cfbfdda.jpg

    a4047d6476a40785ee6ab6895c04a6d8.jpg




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  29. armytbone

    armytbone Iron Registered Member

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    After a few hours of interruptions, I got back to cleaning up the cross slide. Just a gentle honing took care of most of the grittiness. I used some Dykem blue to visualize where my high spots were. Lots of tooling marks from the factory, so I reduced those as much as I dared without removing much metal. Polishing the gib surface seemed to do the most work in smoothing out the motion. My final step was to coat all surfaces with Flitz and move the slide in and out a few dozen times. That effectively lapped it into closer tolerance. Finally I coated it with a thin coat of lubricant and reassembled. I also polished the back of the hand wheel, front of the bracket that holds the leadscrew, and the rear of the retainer nut for the hand wheel.

    Just waiting for the compound mount from LMS to show up to reattach the compound and get turning.
     
  30. Ken from ontario

    Ken from ontario Canada Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Tbone, I'm looking at a used G4000 and seriously considering it .it is actually a Craftex CT039 which is a Canadian version of the G4000, I was wondering what your opinion of this lathe is , now that you have own it for about a year?
    Would you still recommend it? are there any surprises/disappointments ? the asking price for the one I'm looking at is a bit on the high side, ($1200) but don't want to start negotiating the price if it is not the right lathe for me.
    PLease let us know your opinion if you could.
    Thanks.
    Ken.
     

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