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First Post, First Machine.

Rudy_R

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#1
I've been in woodworking for a while, but haven't done much metal machining. I restore stuff, and build stuff, so I thought a metal lathe would be a useful tool. I'm in no hurry to have a working machine, and a small budget takes priority over not spending countless hours working on something to get it going, and I enjoy the work.

Anyway, I picked up a Bardons & Oliver #2 Geared Electric Turret Lathe for 250 Canuck dollars. Was it a good deal? I don't really know, but it was cheaper than anything else I've seen for sale in my area. I know some folks may say that an old turret isn't the machine to start on, and it doesn't have a threading attachment. Well, yeah, that's true. In reality, it's only really gonna do a bit of making some smaller shafts, pins and bushings.

The good: Everything that's there, works. Came with a bunch of collets for the chuck, and a bunch of tool holders for the turret, just no parts that hold the tool holders.

The bad: PO pressed the rotor off the motor shaft and scrapped it. This was easily THE biggest strike against this machine. Putting another motor on and getting it running isn't a big problem for me, as we have a motor shop at work, and we sell motors and controls. The problem is that whatever I can get my hands on, won't be like the original since they stopped making 225 frame motors decades ago.

Anyone with information on these, other than what is available on B&O's site, would be great. I would like to add a 3 or 4 jaw chuck to it eventually, and I'd like to get some stuff set up in the turret. All this stuff may be a year or three down the road.
 

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brino

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#2
Hi Rudy,

Welcome to the site!

Nice machine.... I think you got a great deal!
Any idea the age?
I am glad you got the collets, those can be expensive to add later.
It sounds like a motor swap is definitely the way to go. Hopefully you can figure out the mounting without too much trouble.

A Bardons and Oliver page does NOT seem to exist at http://lathes.co.uk/

However, Vintage Machinery has some info:
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=2302&tab=3

Having any lathe will add capability to your shop to increase what jobs you can do.

What is the spindle nose size; diameter and thread?
You could make a new backing plate for any chuck you can find.

Good luck, and please post with any updates.......even if it is a three year project!

-brino
 

Uglydog

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#3
Cool!!
Another turret lathe on the HM site!!
There are alot of experienced users here at HM.
Me and my Gisholt #5 are still a turret NOOB.

At this last auction I picked up a bunch of Gisholt Turret Tool holders (many several hundred pounds).
Still need to sort through them.
In the lot are several dozen very large BO turret collets which I cannot use. I'll eventually get them posted in the classifieds here or on Ebay.
If you are interested I'll step up the posting here.

Daryl
MN
 

Rudy_R

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#4
I don't think the spindle has a thread. I took the collet cover off (it's how you change the collets) and there's only a flange where you could bolt something on.

The collets only say "2 B&O". So, if the ones you got at the auction say the same, they may fit.

Attached a picture of all the collets I got, and the turret tool holders.
 

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4gsr

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#5
That's a A series spindle nose. Same taper as the D-1 series has but no holes for the camlock pins. If I had to guess, that is a A-1 6" nose, has both inner and outer bolt holes. There are chucks available out there, new and used, jst have to find them and they are pricy. The easiest way to mount a chuck is to get a blank D-1 back plate, remove the camlock pins and match drill holes to the bolt pattern on the spindle nose. Bolt onto the spindle nose with socket head cap screws counterbored in to chuck adapter. Then machine the chuck adapter to fit a chuck. Remove the chuck adapter, drill holes to mount it to the chuck. You will have to use a chuck with a sizeable diameter big enough to clear the spindle nose and get the screws installed. And it looks like that could be a problem if not planned carefully. That inner set of holes on the spindle nose is usually used for mounting three jaw chucks on. The outer set is for 4-jaw chucks and other fixtures that may get mounted. Ken
 

Uglydog

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#6
I dug out the collets I've got.
Mixed bag of B&O and Hardinge.
All are sized B&O#5. Huge!!
Perhaps a couple dozen.

Daryl
MN
 

LucknowKen

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#7
Hi Rudy:
I picked up a Bardons & Oliver #2 Geared Electric Turret Lathe for 250 Canuck dollars. Was it a good deal?
fwiw there was an offshore turret lathe for sale in Kitch for three times what you paid.
imho you got a machine three times more valuable.
btw, welcome to THM!
lk
 

Rudy_R

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#10
I picked it up just outside Port Stanley. Checked it out when we were camping down that way, and picked it up a few days later. I really have no place for it yet (shop floor still needs to be poured) so it still sits on the trailer. Thought it was too good a deal to let it go by. Sometimes you can't afford NOT to pick something up..... at least that's how I justify it to the wife. She knows I turn over every penny a few times before I spend it and make sure I'm not on the losing end of a deal.

As for that backplate, it was more of an example so I know what I'm keeping my eyes open for, based on what 4gsr said. I'll be going to the Steam Era show in Milton on labour day weekend. You never know what you'll find in the treasure troves of people's junk there. Last year I got a 120 year old cider press that I used for 200 litres of cider. Mmmmm!
 

Rudy_R

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#12
Thoughts on this?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/252500595871?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&fromMakeTrack=true

I'd imagine that I would just throw this in the 1" collet and call it good. Seems a cheap enough price. I don't mind some elbow grease. I know you can't have stuff go through the spindle with this on, but I'm pretty sure I'd be using a collet for stuff that I'm cutting off of rod.

Steam show is this weekend, so not gonna buy anything at all until after that.
 

Rudy_R

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#13
Steam Era show was good. There was lots of junk, er, I mean good stuff there to search through. I found a nice Stanley #6 hand plane for $40, some random cutting tools for $15, and a big cider press for $45. There was a guy that had a 4" 3 jaw chuck, but he wanted $125 for it, and the back plate had a taper on it. I could have built a new backplate, but would like something bigger than a 4" if I'm gonna spend that. Still considering the one on Evilbay.
 
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ecdez

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#14
I've got a Bardons and Oliver #5 (subject of this thread http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/bardons-oliver-5.16120/) and I love it. B&O specific tooling can be a challenge to locate; at least for the size I have.

According to one of the manuals your is a 6" A-1 flange just like Ken said.

The tooling cataloge is a little help figuring some things out. The collet number doesn't seem to match the machine number. For a collet with changeable pads, my #5 machine uses #9 pads. The measurements check out too so it's right for mine at least.

I rarely turn threads. When I do I use a die head. Takes some getting used to and some fussing with to get right but for the frequency in which I need it, I don't mind.


Hey Daryl, I might be interested in those collets if they fit mine. I have no reference for the solid collets so I'll need some measurements. Diameter at the base and total length will tell me what I need to know.



We all love pictures so here's one of mine :).

 

Rudy_R

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#15
I found an A2-6 mounting plate and a 10" 4 jaw for a reasonable price to bring it into the frozen north. My brother will pick it up at his box in Buffalo. :) Project has been on the back burner for a bit, and will continue to be until I have a motor lined up. Have it tucked nicely in the corner at work in the nice heated shop. If nobody complains about it, will just leave it there until spring when my floor is poured at home (hopefully). I have no idea how I will get it off the trailer at home, but I still have a few months to figure that out.
 

eugene13

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#16
nice old machine, when I was 19 I operated a B&O in a small shop in Riverside CA, a long time ago and far far away
 

ecdez

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#17
If you look at the picture of mine above I bolted 4x4s to the bottom when they loaded it with the crane where I picked it up. Once I backed up to the garage I let the air out of the trailer tires and jacked the front up enough to get the trailer deck to sit on the concrete. Jack the lathe up with a floor jack, put pipes under it and let gravity do the work while I cranked it down with a come-along. Not easy work, but I unloaded it all alone although it took all day and wiped me out. Once it was on the concrete, moving it around was a completely different story.

Be creative, you can do it.
 

Rudy_R

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#18
I may see if I can lure my neighbor with beer to come help me with his backhoe! It moves around with a pallet jack pretty easy after its on the ground.

Did some more figuring today. Took the gear case cover off to have a look. Will probably be easier than I thought to put a new motor on. I think I'm giving up on an old motor now. We have a new 3hp 3 phase on the shelf at work that had the fan shroud damaged in shipping, so can't really sell it without buying new parts. I can likely get it for a really decent price. It's a D flange mount, so I can just make an adapter plate for it and hope the motor gear will fit without too much machining at the machine shop next door. Motor shafts are the same diameter.

If anyone has any better and easier ideas for putting that gear on there, speak up!

Pictures:

IMG_20170104_171852426.jpg

IMG_20170104_171936007.jpg

IMG_20170104_171915935.jpg

IMG_20170104_171900988.jpg
 

ecdez

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#19
The end of that motor shaft appears to be threaded so you may have to deal with that if the new motor shaft isn't.

If the keyway is a different size that's not too bad to work around.

Those gears look to be in good shape. When I had mine apart I got all the old oil out and scraped the crud off the bottom. Might as well while you're in there. It's hard to buy a 5 gallon pail of oil ($100±) and dump it all in one cavity you'll likely never see again. Good insurance though.
 

Rudy_R

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#20
Yes, it's threaded with a kind of star washer that has an internal finger that fits in the shaft keyway (motor shop guys at work can be helpful sometimes). I also believe there to be a bearing and oil seal in behind that gear. Maybe just a seal, will find out later. It was also suggested that possibly there would be a snap ring too. More likely on the motor end of things.

As I'm taking this apart on my coffee breaks, I can't get much done at once. Have to look after the kids after work, so can't stay late after like I used to.

The gears are in fantastic shape!! No broken teeth, not even much wear! The oil will get changed, though I doubt it will hold 5 gallons. There's a few other oils to change yet too.
 

Rudy_R

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#21
Took the motor out this morning..... Boy, wasn't really expecting this, but it doesn't surprise me either. Thinking about changing gears with the "off the shelf" motor. Going to try to get one with a C flange (smaller). Shaft size on a 3hp is 1 1/8". This shaft is turned down to 1" where the gear mounts on. It was suggested that the quickest, easiest and fastest way to get that on there in a way that's even close to being nice, I will have to get the shop next door to make me a new shaft specific to this setup. The other problem is, the drive end bearing was in a holder, mounted into that casting. I'd like to have the shaft supported right next to the gear as it was originally. This might be kinda redneck, but I'm gonna see if the NDE bearing cup out of the old motor might fit in that hole. Then I can make a plate that the C flange can bolt to, and button it up.

As I know you guys like em, pictures!!

IMG_20170105_110941661.jpg

IMG_20170105_111002664.jpg

IMG_20170105_111009028.jpg

IMG_20170105_111235621.jpg

IMG_20170105_111242079.jpg
 

Rudy_R

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#22
One question for you guys. The original motor is 1800rpm. If I'm ordering a motor in, is there any reason NOT to go with 3600rpm? It will be on a VFD, so speed control is no issue. Also transmission has I believe 6 speeds. I recall in the literature that I've found, that these were available from factory with 3600rpm motors.
 

brino

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#23
Hi Rudy,

It's a little hard to tell from here, but would that mounting plate separate from the old motor?
To me that hub looks like it might hold a short stub shaft (to adapt the motor to the 1 inch gear shaft).
Have you got any side shots of the motor and plate?

-brino
 

Rudy_R

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#24
Will get a picture for you tomorrow. The drive end end bell is an OEM specific cast part. It's one peice as far as I can tell. I had thoughts of sawing the "bell" part off of it and keeping the "plate" part with the bearing holder. I have in mind that it's gonna be a huge PITA to first, cut it with any semblance of accuracy. Then I have no tools to make it flat for mounting a motor. Remember, this is my first metalworking tool other than a drill press or three. I'm better equipped for wood. The horizontal bandsaw still sits where it came off the truck after picking it up, in all its rusty and dirty glory, with no blade. I'd rather not fork out a fortune to a machine shop to do all this stuff, but I realize that I can't get away from it completely either.
 

Rudy_R

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#25
Picture of side view of motor drive end:

IMG_20170106_091007707.jpg

I also tried putting the non drive end bearing cup in the hole in the casting... it fits!!! And a quick measure told me that it's the same depth as the one on the drive end too!! There may be an easy way to do this yet!!

IMG_20170106_090952042.jpg

IMG_20170106_090933764.jpg
 

tq60

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#26
Have you looked at pump motors?

Water well pump motor may be an option as they may have a flat interface.

A good pump shop could modify to fit but $$$$

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 

Rudy_R

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#27
We can get pump motors as well. Something this size wouldn't be cost effective. Won't be hard to mount up a C flange, as I've already got the plan in my head for that. I think the route to take will be to get a new motor and get a new shaft made for the motor. Just talking to our motor sales guy about best option right now.
 

Rudy_R

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#28
Hmmmmm...... Funny story. I will now have an A2-6 10 1/2" diameter chuck mounting plate for sale. :headache: I forgot that I had measured the spindle nose before and found that it is in fact an A2-5. So, with it not being worth it to ship it back because of cost of shipping, I'll be trying to sell it here in Canuckistan to some poor soul who needs it. Hopefully before SWMBO finds out I'm a blundering idiot. I've also now ordered an A2-5 mounting plate. Measure thrice, buy twice!!
 

Silverbullet

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#29
You have a great machine , there made to work and work forever. With a little maintenance it will be working long after you . Not bad to learn on takes a bit of thinking to get your operations in order. Sometimes working backwards from your print is the best way. I'd love to have one but no room . Ill take a Hardinage tho in a heartbeat if I have the money. Shoot I'd go in debt , I'd mount it on wheels tho with levelers . Good luck with her she will work quicker then a CNC in some circumstances. Your lathe will also give you a great workout. I know believe me I ran many of them , some with Hugh chucks and bores. Glad you got a good one , little bit of work and she'll be making chips . No problem parting with turret LATHES , no flex in them at all.
 

Rudy_R

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#30
Just got my shipment in from DHL. My VFD came!!! For $160 Canadian, wasn't too bad of a deal. I've read a lot of reviews and such on the Huanyang VFDs, and the majority of it was good. I've also dealt with a LOT of different VFDs over the years through work, sales, service and repair. When compared to the smaller, cheaper drives that we sell at work (Delta, Eaton, Leeson/ACTech), it's all pretty standard. The "cheapies" we offer would have run me about $350 or more. Other than me having to open it up when I got it (no big deal for me) and extract two screws that were rattling around (one from cover, one from top control board), I think it's a pretty good deal. Haven't powered it up yet, but might do that next week and run one of our test motors, just to make sure everything is alright, and it doesn't let the magic smoke out.

 
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