First Mill Advice

[grepper]

I can’t stand it! I've been bitten by the bug, and I have to get a mill. I don’t want to spend $N$ on it, and considering there is a HF store nearby, I’ll most likely go with the HF mini. I want to be able to cut channels, drill and maybe make small gears. I’m not in a hurry and don’t mind small cuts to get the job done.

I know nothing about mills, and I notice the HF does not include any tooling.

I have really super basic questions like; do you use a regular drill chuck for drilling? I guess for making channels an end mill is used. Collets? What size? Really noob stuff.

When I get the thing home, I want to be able to cut channels and drill to start out, and not immediately have to make another hour round trip to HF.

Considering what I want to do, any advice on tooling to get started would be really appreciated, or just about any getting started advice for that matter for that matter would be very helpful.

Thanks!

 

[JimDawson]

Yes, a regular drill chuck with an arbor to fit either a collet or an R-8 taper.

OK I'll start the list, with a word of warning: Once you start buying tooling it never ends You can far exceed the cost of the mill in tooling.

R-8 Collets 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4
Clamp kit
Milling Vice
Drill Chuck and Arbor
Endmill Set
Digital Calipers
Center Drills (drill/countersink)
Dial Indicator

There is a lot more, but this will get you started.

Most of the above can be purchased from HF, they don't seem to carry collets, drill chucks, and milling vices

 

[royesses]

To add to what JIm has started:
The HF mini mill comes with a 1/2" drill chuck jt-33 on an R8 arbor. It also includes the drawbar. If they have the 3-MT version of the mini mill it is not as good as the R8 version. Get the R8 version. HF sells some end mills in a kit http://www.harborfreight.com/20-piece-titanium-nitrade-coated-end-mill-set-5947.html. By far the best bet when starting out is to order what you need from Little Machine Shop. They have a walk through list of recommended tools for starting users. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/getting_started.php?Chapter=GS_MiniMill_01.htm&d=0|2|13
I have spent thousands at LMS and never had any problems with the products. Always fast and honest shipping. I don't know if HF has the proper clamp kit for the mini mill, it uses the 7/16" t-nuts http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1144
LMS has the collets and everything else. They also sell a complete starter set with everything you need. The collets are better than end mill holders. You will also want a set of 3" parallels to use with the vise http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1893&category=. LMS has a nice vise in their kit. The parallels go in the vise under the work piece to raise it above the vise jaws.

When you get the mill use a 20% off coupon. Print it out or photograph it with your phone. No sense paying more than you need to. Have a buddy make another copy of the coupon so you can save on another item.
The mini mill needs some cleaning when you unbox it. Use towels or paper towels and maybe some mineral spirits to clean the shipping grease off. Check and tighten every bolt and nut especially the column mount bolts on the base. You will want to lightly oil non painted surfaces.

There is a lot of information on the LMS web site. I spent hours reading there when I first found them. Ask as many questions as you want here. So many helpful members here to guide you.

Man this is an addictive hobby! Very rewarding and educational.

Roy

 

[TommyD]

It's a sickness that strikes us all, more tooling either made or bought. Where I am there are a few combo mill/lathes on Craigs List for sale with a decent amount of extra tooling included. If you consider this route, do a search, here or on the 'net, to see what others think about the product as well as the price new. The best thing about buying new is having a warranty IF something isn't working.

 

[intjonmiller]

First, Jim is always right.

Second, before investing in everything he mentioned, invest in a dedicated tool chest (benchtop, rolling cart, whatever makes sense for your situation). Give yourself the best shot at not losing anything. You still will, of course, but hopefully you'll lose less and do so less frequently this way.

 

[Charles Spencer]

I got an HF mini mill which I had to order online but shipping was only $20. It seems that since then they have increased the price to $650 but lowered the shipping to $15:

http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html

So with 20% off your total cost would be $535. It took about a month to arrive.

 

[grepper]

Thanks Jim, that is exactly the list I needed. I already have center drills, nice caliper and a dial indicator, so I’ll get the rest.

Thanks for the links royesses! Looks like pretty much what I need to get started. I’m very familiar with LMS, HF, MSC, Enco, mini-lathe.com and the like. I love/hate them all. I would only love them, except that that they actually charge $'s for stuff. I agree that LMS is great and their customer service is second to none. The first thing I got from them was a after I got my lathe was a Tormach QCTP http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3112&category=-419988835. What a nice piece of stuff! 5 *'s. The only thing I don’t like about LMS is that unless you want to spend $$N$$ on shipping, it takes 4 days to MI. I asked them to open a branch in MI, but they politely declined, mumbling something about the weather. Oh, well.

As far as HF, I just wish they would send a few more flyers, catalogs, and emails! The endless coupon game- What a funny business model. But at least I always feel like I’m getting the deal of the century.

I’ve been watching Craig’s List for a while. Nothing has popped up in my area other than large units. I have to haul the thing to my basement, so I need to keep it small, and 300 lbs or more just won’t work.

I already have too many expensive hobbies, too much stuff, not enough work space, too few benches and drawers, too much clutter and not enough $’s. But it is too late for me; the sickness has struck and now I can only suffer the effects and do what I must to treat it. As far as I know, it’s an incurable and chronic condition requiring expensive treatment. I know! A tough row to hoe for sure, but somebody has to do it!

 

[Fabrickator]

I'll put my $ .02 in and tell you to buy a Little Machine Shop High Torque Mini Mill and their start-up kit with most of what you need to get started. I've owned mine for about 5 years and use it daily. They have quick deliveries, good prices and good customer service. I live fairly local and picked it up and saved shipping. Due to the Z axis (chuck/quill clearance) they are pretty much limited to 6-8" height. You can machine about 8-10" length, depending on if you want to cut it in one pass without moving the part. Keep in mind these are small machines and not made for heavy industrial use, more like hobby stuff. You will also have to buy a lathe... with it's own tooling package, just figure it into the budget. I bought a Grizzly G0602 and it's been a very good, dependable lathe. They also have a newer model with a variable speed motor.

Jim's list in pretty comprehensive including the need for measuring tools. I would suggest that you buy them from Enco (good prices, fast deliveries). You don't need to invest in Starret if you're just starting out, Mitutoyo is certainly high quality and a thrifty alternative. I'll add that you should quickly buy and install some cheap DRO's (digital read-outs) on your machine(s) to help you progress quickly with your level of accuracy.

Just know this will turn into a addiction and you will never be done buying tooling if you get to be a hobbyist metal worker. I've spent over the amount of my lathe and mill combined on tooling in the past 5 years, and I already owned ALL of my measuring tools that I bought 20 years ago. I have accounts at several favorite vendors (Enco, MSC, McMaster-Carr) and find myself buying more tooling and expendables every month.

If you just need it to do a couple of simple operations for a small job or two (you mention channels?), you can gear up for what you'll be doing for a reasonable cost. It's cheaper to buy pre-made gears for a particular project than buy/make the tooling to make them, unless you'll be making a lot of them. There are several good gear vendors with whatever you could possibly need (Boston Gear and more). A great bearing vendor is VXB.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with my suggested vendors listed, just good experiences with my purchases.

 

[royesses]

Grepper, I do understand the hate for shipping charges. I use USPS priority flat rate box shipping whenever I can. Saves $$ and gets here in Oklahoma in 2 days normally. I didn't buy the LMS high torque when it was on sale because of the $200.00 shipping charge. Harbor freight charged $20.00 shipping and it was here in a week. Here is a link to the Harbor Freight coupons page:http://www.hfqpdb.com/
There are usually many coupons for the entire year on that page and they are always accepted when I buy at HF. No more waiting for a coupon in the mail.
Your dilemma is similar to mine. Not enough room, can't be too heavy, too many hobbies, not enough breakers in the electric service breaker box, etc. And not enough money to do everything I get into. That is another reason I went with the HF mini mill. So far I've been thrilled with it. If it will do what you want, then go for it. You will be upgrading it with LMS parts. It's part of the addiction. Got to have the air spring and belt drive kits, add 3 dro's, got to have the rotary table, make a spot light or ring light and more. It's worse than a drug addiction. But you can spend time doing things that you can be proud of, making parts and tools, helping out family and friends and if you have children teaching them a craft that will serve them for a lifetime. The best of all is you will be in learning mode for the rest of your life. Every tool or upgrade purchase starts a new journey of research and learning. And leads to another new purchase. This forum makes it all pure fun to go through.

Got to love the addiction!

Roy

 

[grepper]

Fabrickator, I totally agree with you. I have considered the LMS HT until my head hurts. $200 shipping sucks. I’m sure after upgrades that may indeed cost more in the long run, I’ll end up with that machine anyway! I had decided on the HF, then after reading your post, I went back and reconsidered the LMS once again.

That being said, royesses pretty much summed up my situation. I can get into the HF with just enough tooling included for about half the price, and that fits my current situation better. Will I end up wishing I had ponyed up the extra $$ to begin with? Maybe. Will I wish I had more machine? Of course! Been there, done that. Onion other hand, I don’t mind doing upgrades, and I’m thinking that for now the HF will at least get me into it and suffice for the hobby work I want to do.

I always have at least a 20% coupon at HF. I don’t understand why they put me through the hoop, but nonetheless I’m well trained in the practice. I have other hobbies such as RC helicopters that need my attention and $$ too. Yet another great, endless, $$$ vacuum!

Hopeless tool addict, RC addict, sharpening addict, and now machining addict (among other things...). I’m hoping I won’t end up in vibratory oscillation, hopelessly dumping money in all directions, and accomplishing nothing!

Thanks everybody for you input. Exactly what I needed!