[Newbie] First Home Shop Lathe/mill

toolman147

Registered
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Messages
71
Hello...I'm from southwestern Pa. (just a lil north of Washington, Pa.). I'm looking to add to my metal working arsenal. I started a few years ago with a mig welder (miller 211), then some oxy/acet torches (smith), followed by a small plasma cutter (hypertherm), and a mitering bandsaw (femi). the most recent addition was a 1950,s delta metal cutting vertical bandsaw (loved restoring it, and it cuts great). So, with that said, Im now looking to add either a lathe or milling machine. Ive been looking on craigslist and e-bay and getting more confused by the minute. Since the only real experience with either is high school metal shop (lathe) and that was a LONG time ago, so I need some experienced advice. This is a home shop not a production shop...so I won't be worried about speed or production time. I just want to be able to stretch my abilities when it come to fabrication with metal. I also work on cars (gear head from way back) so the ability to make some parts would be great.
So, which should I be looking for first (lathe/Mill) and what (type/size) is most appropriate for my situation?
I realize that there a lot of variables here but I'm just looking for some basic guidelines (from experience) when it comes to what to look for and what to avoid when buying these types of machines.
Thanks!
Terry
 
To avoid becoming a TLDR:
In short, watch the MIT Machine Shop video series on YouTube and invest in a brand new, high-quality, almost too big for a benchtop milling machine.
In long, reasoning continued below.

I came from a similar background and have recently (~1 year ago) taken the same leap you are describing. I also had a welder and various saws when it came down to a lathe or a mill. It will depend on your personal use.
I build liquid rocket engines primarily so going with the lathe was a given. It is also the machine that I have the most experience with.

There were a few things that I overlooked when I transitioned careers from a race team that had a fully equipped machine shop to my current position at Cape Canaveral where I'm not allowed to use the machine shop. Simple things like a perfectly flat granite bench, numerous parallels, indicators, references in general are a lot harder to come by in my then spare bedroom, now rocket research lab. When you are working within any kind of critical tolerances references are more important that the cuts most of the time. I also didn't realize that I had to rebuild my testing entire infrastructure including my thrust stand, plumbing, electrical connections, sensors... etc before I would even get to building a rocket.

Sorry for thinking out loud but I wish I had said all of these things to myself before my purchase. I do not regret my decision. I love my lathe like a child but I would have gone with a mill because of self-contained reference/indexability and its versatility. What you can do on a lathe you can do on a mill (rotary table/boring head) and visa-versa but a mill will give you a more expanded capacity at the sacrifice of speed when working with round/turnable parts. In the end, you can always build yourself a lathe with a mill!

When it comes to sizing a lathe or a mill, it again depends on your conditions but the critical size seems to be about 7x14" for a lathe and maybe 9x21" for a mill table which I would consider the upper end of the "mini" machine category. If you are dealing in this regime, it will be wise to go with a new machine and just invest the money. Increased prices here do account for quality still until you get to pricing for more features which should be in the range of $700-$1300.

After that or if your desire more capacity, its probably a better choice to try and craigslist a well used higher quaility full sized machine like an atlas or a bridgeport. Emphasis on the well used, not "like new" because more than likely someone with the money to buy a new machine that barely gets used or broken in, either didn't or doesn't know how to maintain it and use it properly. When buying used, reference YouTube University to learn what to look for and always ask the previous owner about any qwerks because every machine develops a personality of its own. If you are going to be working on gearhead type projects primarily than the mini machines should certainly be able to cover most of what you would need.

No matter what you choose you (and anyone who has ever held a wrench) should definitely watch the MIT Machine Shop video series on youtube. I have a couple thousand hours into machining on everything from 7hp lathes to Cincinnati Mills to my current 7x Grizzly lathe and Tormak CNC machines and everytime I watch the series or have it playing in the background I learn something new. In terms of learning curves, I feel like a mill spinning a 1/8 inch bit is a lot more forgiving than a lathe spinning a 1 foot chunk of 6 in round a few thousand rpms imo.

I hope that there is something of significance lost somewhere in that ramble. Let me know if I can help you out in any other way.
 
A Bridgeport style mill weighs about 2000 pounds. Can you move that around and do you have a place to put it?

Most hobby machinists have their equipment limited by space and weight. Once you have that upper-limit determined, you can make some logical shopping decisions.
 
I'd say it depends on what you want to make. If you're thinking small (6X12 or so) then an Atlas or Barker mill would work for you but there are others. If you're thinking engine block size or something then Bridgeport comes to mind. On lathes, I would stay away from the small minis and go for a 9" or larger if you can. If you buy small, you'll end up buying a larger one later....DAMHIKT. Since you had fun with the band saw I'd be looking for a South Bend, Logan, or Sheldon project lathe to rehab. South bends tend to be more expensive because of name recognition. You might want to read Dave Ficken's articles on used lathes "Advice on buying a lathe" http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html and his follow-up article "In modest praise of clunkers" http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html, both informative and entertaining. The search is half the fun so arm yourself with knowledge and enjoy the hunt.

John
 
Out here on the west side of the rockies we are in what they call a machinery desert. From what I see folks mention and post from classifieds I think you are in a much more fertile environment, machinery wise. Look around, you may find some older iron that needs a bit of love like your bandsaw did. If you want to go new, what kind of budget are you looking at? The guys can then offer some suggestions. Remember that you can spend as much on tooling as you do on the machine.
Dave
 
Terry,
I live about 40 mile from you in Wind Ridge . We should get together and talk shop. I have a SB9A a vert and a horz band saws I just sold horz mill with a vert head. I am looking to get a table top mill when things are ready.
 
If you decide to get something new. Quality Machine Tools is on the south side of Pittsburg. Many of us have machines from there (they are the PM brand), and you will almost nothing but praise. Once you settle on what type, size and budget, call them and Matt can help you chose a model - his inventory is much larger than what is on the website.

There are probably tons of used clapped out machines very close to you. One of the largest dealers of used machines is just over in Akron. If you decide to go used, be wary. Most of the stuff in our part of the world came out of factories that ran 3 shifts. There are some very nice machines kicking around, but even more that belong in the scrap heap.

Other than that. Standard advice is figure out what size machine you want, and get the next size up.
 
Hi Terry,

Welcome to the site!

John scooped me on two references above in post #4.
Here are a couple more good references........

when thinking about a lathe:
http://hobby-machinist.com/threads/a-guide-for-selecting-the-right-lathe-for-beginners.25915/

when thinking about a milling machine:
http://hobby-machinist.com/library-articles/how-to-select-and-buy-a-metalworking-milling-machine.11/

Those two articles discuss the controls, accessories and capabilities of various machine types.

As to which one, the question has been discussed here recently, there may be some useful input here:
http://hobby-machinist.com/threads/mill-or-lathe.42289/

Really it all comes down to what you want to do.
I also work on cars (gear head from way back) so the ability to make some parts would be great.
Unfortunately, that's not specific enough.....what kind of parts? Cars have lots of them!

A lathe may be best if you want to turn bushings, shafts, pins, regrind valves, turn cam shafts, crack shafts or axles, wind springs, etc.

You would probably want a milling machine to mill heads, re-bore cylinders and carburetors, etc.

The above should help with direction.
You can always post back here with more questions.

-brino
 
First of all...Thanks for all your replies. There seems to be some great experience and knowledge far above what I have in this area. I am a retired electrician so doing any "motor stuff" or getting power to any machine is where my expertise ends.
With that said let me respond to a few questions. My "shop" is a detached 26'x32' garage with 12' ceiling height. I have a beam across the center for lifting purposes only (no structural support) with a couple of rolling chain hoists. I also have access to a car hauler so picking up-delivering a machine to my shop should be doable. The budget is a little flexible, but I don't want to put too much into the machinery till I see how much use it gets. I have been looking at some used lathes in the $750-$1800 range, with a 9" to 16" swing range. It seems that the 10"-12" is a pretty good all around size (?). As for mills, I've looked at everything from "mill-drills" up to 9"x42" bridgeport style machines ($500-$3000). In reality I will have to pick one (lathe/mill) to purchase first. I can't afford both right now. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!
Thanks again!
Terry
 
oops... As far as the size of car parts...I won't be boring cylinders or milling heads (but the carb re-boring may be possible). Most will be smaller parts (i.e. bushings, shafts, pins, etc.).
Thanks!
Terry
 
Back
Top