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Econemy Thread Wire's

Discussion in 'METROLOGY - MEASURE, SETUP & FIT' started by stupoty, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. stupoty

    stupoty Active User Active Member

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    Hello,

    I used my thread wires today and remembered that the chart that comes with them has a few typo's on in.

    Their an awesome china brand, being fair the rubber clips to hold them on a micrometer are quite good. :)

    Always worth a check if you have a cheep cheep set of wires.

    Stuart
     
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  2. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    There are many here who have never used thread wires.
    Sounds like you've used yours several times.
    Please consider giving us a how to primer on when, why, and how.
    I wonder if the presumed complexity scares prospective new users.

    Daryl
    MN
     
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  3. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have a set of thread wires and I know how to use them. It is not really too difficult to do as long as you have five arms or know the simple tricks that go with them that are not in the instructions. So far I have been able to avoid actually using them in anger. When I really have to, I will.
     
  4. British Steel

    British Steel United Kingdom Active User Active Member

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    The trick is a wine cork to poke the wires into - and the bottle to drink :)

    They're not really that complex to use, they come in a set with a chart which tells you which wire size for each thread pitch, and simple sums to get from the micrometer measurement across the wires to the thread pitch diameter. They're the reasonably priced way to measure threads accurately, so you can make them accurately!

    Dave H. (the other one)
     
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  5. stupoty

    stupoty Active User Active Member

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    The holders that come with them make it quite easy to use them, all though iv'e seen them stuck into blue tack or corks which also looks quite good.

    I was making a couple of bolts for a stuffing box on a hydraulic Cylinder which is installed. I don't have a nut of the correct size to check the bolts with and testing it the piston wasn't really an option.

    My usual method is trial fit a nut , cough cough :)

    I looked up the spec for 5/16 NC in machineries handbook, it has diameter info of; major dia, pitch dia, and minor dia.

    The pitch diameter is used for measuring with wires, so i look up the tpi on the thread wire chart (a correct one :) )

    My chart lists it as this,

    Mesurement over wires - constant from table = pitch diameter

    The pitch diameter for the 18tpi 5/16 is 0.2764
    The constant for 18tpi is 0.04789

    Pitch diameter + constant = target mesurement
    0.2764 + 0.04789 = 0.32429 (I rounded down to 0.324 as my target)

    Their a bit of a faff to use but both bolts came out to size (yay)


    Stuart

    Just noticed they are mesuring as 322 ish so maybe a couple of thou under Or my mic technique when taking photos.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
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  6. stupoty

    stupoty Active User Active Member

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    The price point is one of the main reasons I got them, their dead handy and quite cheep, a set of thread mics would be quicker but I don't think I would use them enough to justify the spend.

    hears a link to a data sheet that appears to be correct :)

    http://www.icscuttingtools.com/pdfs/Thread-Chart.pdf

    Stuart
     
  7. dave2176

    dave2176 United States Active User Active Member

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    I used the 3 wire method for this thread before chucking and parting off the waste. I was surprised how simple it was to do following Machinery's Handbook (which I typically struggle with). It begins on page 1990 in the 29th edition and continues for few pages. BTW, after parting and crowning the brake fit perfectly. I'd do it the same way again (3 wire) except I would skip the relief groove and just back the cutter out of the thread at the right time.
    MuzzleThread.jpg
    Dave
     
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  8. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I clearly recall being intimidated by all the numbers and terms.
    This topic can be a little frightening.
    For the thread/gear Noob here is a link to terminology: http://www.threadcheck.com/the-three-wire-method-of-measuring-pitch-diameter/technicalinfo/
    I'm not pretending that this link is the best, or only.
    Nor have I got this thread and gear thing figured out. However, I've made alot of progress by reading and re-reading content on the topic.
    And, in turn making some gears and threads.
    I've not yet used wires/pins to measure spur gears. But, I believe it should be the same process.
    I'm very slowly tooling up to cut a bevel gear (yep, one of about 3dozen projects). Any tricks or tips?
    Or am I following the wrong rabbit trail again?

    Perhaps I should start a new thread (pun:). However, I believe it fits the theme of the OP.

    Daryl
    MN
     
  9. stupoty

    stupoty Active User Active Member

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    I haven't used them for measuring gears but good point I guess it would be similar.

    Making bevel gears that sounds difficult but very rewarding :) I would use the method of making about 10 practice ones first , ha ha :)

    Stuart
     
  10. EmilioG

    EmilioG United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I would use Pee-Dee brand. Tom Griffin says they're the best.
    Maybe Brown&Sharpe.
     
  11. toolroom

    toolroom Active Member Active Member

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    In the trade I worked in the Hydraulic department turning cylinders for heavy equipment. Reading the wires was not hard... it was getting the darn things to stay put! I used a little gob of heavy grease to hold the top wires in place while I held the bottom tto the mic. Of course the cylinders were 6 to 9 inch diameters 12 TPI.
    I like the rubber holder gizmo. My Pee Dee's didn't come with that.
    Toolroom
     
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  12. Bill C.

    Bill C. United States Active User Active Member

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    I don't recall using them before. Used other gages to measure threads, Go-NoGo and pitch gages.
     
  13. Bill Gruby

    Bill Gruby United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'd like to have a nickel for every time I have used thread wires. LOL

    "Billy G"
     
  14. rick9345

    rick9345 United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    clean threads(acetone) gob of modelling clay.sticks to threaded part stick the wires in.
     
  15. Billh50

    Billh50 Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I would think that for the average hobbyist the economy thread wires would be good enough. I am sure they have to be within reasonable tolerances. As for holding them in place I have used the cork method many times and the micrometer adapter a couple times.
     
  16. Tony Wells

    Tony Wells United States Vice President Staff Member Administrator

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    If you're really lazy (or having a tough time holding all 3 wires) do a little math and come up with a target size based on contact with the major diameter on one side and 2 wires on the opposite.

    Me too, Bill......me too.
     
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  17. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yeah, try checking a 4 pitch Acme thread with three wires... You find out real quick your mic is not big enough, spindle diameter wise, to get it to straddle the wires. I use the one wire method in its place. Two wires work too.
     
  18. stupoty

    stupoty Active User Active Member

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    Yeah the wires and holders are amazing, it's just the table of data that came with them is wrong :) the box is a bit poorly molded so one size can get stuck a bit.

    Stuart
     
  19. mcostello

    mcostello Active User Active Member

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    Would using just 2 wires on one side work? Seems like it should be the same after figuring out what the dimension should be, if a sample thread was available it should just be a comparison type measurement. What say Ye?
     
  20. stupoty

    stupoty Active User Active Member

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    I think the reason to use 3 is to get the measurement parallel, if you were using just 2 (one each side) their would be more risk of measuring them at an angle other than 90 degrees to the thread.

    Stuart
     
  21. stupoty

    stupoty Active User Active Member

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    I miss read your post I have a bit of a cold, yeah i've seen that mentioned before i can't remember when the up shoot was, I think by using wires on both sides your eliminating the need to account for any under size that may have been applied to the major diamitor to achive the desired fit, i.e. Your not mesuring the root or the od of the thread. Just the pitch diamitor.

    Stuart
     
  22. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Doing so can risk an in-accurate reading. You have to know what the actual diameter of the blank is before cutting thread and the measurement over wires using three wires. Subtract the MOW from actual OD divide by two and add to the actual OD. Now you have your measurement you shoot for using one wire, or if you like two wires on one side of the thread.
     
  23. bfd

    bfd United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    what I teach my apprentices is to tape the wires on a small piece of cardboard then fold the cardboard in half so the wires intertwine into each other two from one side on the outsides of the single one from the other. then you can hold the cardboard with one hand and mic over the wires with the other. It takes some practice, you will get the hang of it. practice. it beats my first attempt when I dropped the wire into the chip pan full of chips never did find it. bill
     
  24. Tony Wells

    Tony Wells United States Vice President Staff Member Administrator

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    PeeDee used to replace any wire you damaged or lost. I wonder if they still do that. Or if they are still even in business.

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this old thread is how the wire size is determined, and why they come only in certain sizes. It's all based on the concept of hitting the flank of the thread at the pitch line, since what you are wanting to measure is the pitch diameter. I have a boxed set of about 30-40 I guess different sizes for Acme and Stub Acme threads that are all different from the wires for UN threads with the same pitch. It's the angle that makes all the difference. With as many different thread types out there as there are, it would take many, many different sizes of wires to have a truly complete set.
     
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  25. Bill Gruby

    Bill Gruby United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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  26. Tony Wells

    Tony Wells United States Vice President Staff Member Administrator

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    Good to see they are still around. Very good quality wires. Thanks Bill.
     
  27. chips&more

    chips&more United States Active User Active Member

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  28. Tony Wells

    Tony Wells United States Vice President Staff Member Administrator

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    Odd....took me to the same page.
     
  29. Bill Gruby

    Bill Gruby United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I just tried it again and it's a good link. It takes you to the home page and you click on Pee Dee thread wires at the top. You can have the cegar, I have more.
     
  30. RandyM

    RandyM United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yup guys, is working perfectly now, but when I tried it the first time it didn't either.
     

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