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Drum switch to Motor with board If I eliminate the board?

Discussion in 'ELECTRICAL ISSUES - POWER YOUR MACHINES & SHOP' started by woochucker, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    So I'm a little stumped right now, I believe this is doable w/o a separate on/off switch, I read some of the other posts, and I think I can do this with the drum switch. I believe if I eliminate the board (which eliminates the thermal protection, and direct wire I can do it. Am I wrong.
    MotorWiringPlate_adj.jpg
    VisiblePlate.JPG
    HiddenPlate1.jpg
    RS1A_diagram.jpg
     
  2. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Hi woodchucker,
    the board contains the centrifugal start switch.
    you could possibly make it work, but you'd need to make provision for a momentary start switch.
     
  3. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    You can do it and keep the board and thermal thingie too. I assume you want to run it on 115 volts.
    If you give me a second I can whip up a sketch..
    Mark S.
     
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  4. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Ok this ought to do it: drum2x.jpg
    Disconnect your two start leg wires, blue and yellow and connect them to 3 and 4 on the drum switch. Everything that used to go to that blue, extend with a single wire and connect to 1 on the drum switch. Everything that used to go to yellow, bring it to 6 on the drum switch. Single wire again. Drum 2 not used.
    Your hot line wire still goes only to 1 on the motor. Your line neutral should go only to 5 on the drum switch.
    That should give you forward and reverse with off in the center. We are breaking the neutral to kill the motor in this configuration. Swap blue and yellow if necessary to get the motor rotation to match the label on the drum switch cover.
    Remember that the motor terminal 1 is always live. If that's not acceptable there are alternate connections but would probably require chucking the thermal. Make sure you have a separate safety ground wire to the motor case which connects to a reliable water-pipe type ground.
    Mark S.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
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  5. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    i saw no reference to manufacturer or model of drum switch in the OP's description,
    identifying the drum switch may prove to be essential.
    there are many types of drum switches, all are not wired the same
     
  6. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    I'm keeping the board with the cent. switch, just not terminating off the board.
    I figure if I go to direct wire and eliminate the thermal, I get closer to a motor designed for the switch.
     
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  7. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    I am chucking the thermal switch.. And no I don't want neutral as the switched, I would rather hot be switched. Thanks.
     
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  8. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    I included the wiring diagram from the vendor (electric motor warehouse).. Its an RS-1A-SH by Relay and Control Corp.
     
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  9. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    OK it's only a little more work to switch both the line wires. Essentially you need to wire as per the "single phase" version on the drum switch diagrams, even though the capacitor and start switch are not shown, the principle is the same; they are just in series with the start winding.
    I believe you can keep the thermal too, I think we covered this in an earlier post- let me see if I can find it and I'll repost it.
    Mark S.
     
  10. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    I actually think you are close, but Drum 2 is used for line in, and Drum 1 as you said, that switches the hot on and off.
     
  11. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    Would this work?
    motor_wiring.jpg
     
  12. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I'm trying to identify the windings but I only see 5 "winding wires" coming out of the motor:
    red
    yellow
    brown
    black
    darkish blue
    should be 6.
    there must be a splice, let me look at the 220 volt hookup for a bit..
     
  13. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Is there a grey wire on your drawing? What is that one connected to the black that goes to L1?
    MS
    ps yes your drawing looks workable if you can account for all 6 winding wires
     
  14. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    I have
    Blue
    Yellow
    Brwn
    Red
    Green
    Black
    Here's a better image, I think this is what you were saying
    20170331_133117.jpg
     
  15. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Oh I see it's a green not darkish blue
     
  16. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Does that blue cap wire go straight out to the board or does it take a detour into the windings first. I'm having trouble visualising which two wires are the start winding
    Mark
     
  17. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Yellow is one end of the start winding, then which is the other end?
    M
     
  18. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    I thought the blue was the switch to the start winding. And green was the other end of it.
    And then yellow would be the run?

    wouldn't the capacitor and centrifigul switch attach to the start winding?
     
  19. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I was trying to correlate this Baldor diagram to your motor, the colors are different of course but I can't account for the 6 winding ends.
    Baldor L1319M Diagram.jpg
     
  20. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I thought the green one goes from the terminal board to the cap..? No? Something I'm missing here
    M
    if yellow and green are the start winding your drawing may not work
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  21. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Here's another diagram that may be helpful: (disregard the colors) (centrifugal misspelled)
    StartrandRunwindingsstandard-1.jpg
     
  22. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I'm thinking black and yellow are the start winding ends...
     
  23. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Your motor must be the strangest color scheme I've seen yet LOL
     
  24. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    Green from cap, goes to the back of the term board, which connects to white (which is the thermal overload protection) , then thermal O/L goes to black which attaches to blue which goes to the start (cent switch)
     
  25. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    So if the blue and yellow are the ends of the start winding then your drawing should work.
    blue and yellow to 3 and 4.
    power to 1 and 5 (or 2 and 6)
    remaining two wire groups to opposite corners of drum.
    MS
     
  26. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Do you have a continuity tester or an ohmmeter? I would ring out the windings to be sure. You may have to open the start switch with a piece of cardboard to get valid readings on the cap and the start winding.
    MS
     
  27. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    so if yellow and blue need to be switched to reverse the motors, is it safe to say that yellow and blue are the start winding?
     
  28. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    No because you said the blue only goes (or comes from) the cap. Does it go anywhere else? I'm not clear on:
    A) which colors are the run windings
    B) which colors are the start winding- if yellow is one end where is the other?
    Until we know for sure you're gonna have fireworks. or a tripped circuit breaker.
    Mark S.
     
  29. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    You don't want to have your centrifugal switch or the cap directly across the line inadvertently, that's why I'm stressing caution here. That's a possibility we want to avoid.
    MS
    ps I'll check back on this in a few hours... ciao
     
  30. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    I never said blue goes/comes from cap. Blue goes to the centrifigul switch, which then goes to the cap.
    So here's what I have continuity wise:
    Blue - Yellow
    Red - Green
    Blk - Brwn

    If you look at the pics you can see how the brown and green are on the backside of the terminal block.
     

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