• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • Guest,  We want to wish You and Your Family a Healthy, Happy Thanksgiving! Click the "X" at the top right corner to remove this notice)
  • PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

4

Drum switch to Motor with board If I eliminate the board?

3
Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!
10

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#1
So I'm a little stumped right now, I believe this is doable w/o a separate on/off switch, I read some of the other posts, and I think I can do this with the drum switch. I believe if I eliminate the board (which eliminates the thermal protection, and direct wire I can do it. Am I wrong.
MotorWiringPlate_adj.jpg
VisiblePlate.JPG
HiddenPlate1.jpg
RS1A_diagram.jpg
 

Ulma Doctor

Infinitely Curious
Active Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
4,298
Likes
3,495
#2
Hi woodchucker,
the board contains the centrifugal start switch.
you could possibly make it work, but you'd need to make provision for a momentary start switch.
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#3
You can do it and keep the board and thermal thingie too. I assume you want to run it on 115 volts.
If you give me a second I can whip up a sketch..
Mark S.
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#4
Ok this ought to do it: drum2x.jpg
Disconnect your two start leg wires, blue and yellow and connect them to 3 and 4 on the drum switch. Everything that used to go to that blue, extend with a single wire and connect to 1 on the drum switch. Everything that used to go to yellow, bring it to 6 on the drum switch. Single wire again. Drum 2 not used.
Your hot line wire still goes only to 1 on the motor. Your line neutral should go only to 5 on the drum switch.
That should give you forward and reverse with off in the center. We are breaking the neutral to kill the motor in this configuration. Swap blue and yellow if necessary to get the motor rotation to match the label on the drum switch cover.
Remember that the motor terminal 1 is always live. If that's not acceptable there are alternate connections but would probably require chucking the thermal. Make sure you have a separate safety ground wire to the motor case which connects to a reliable water-pipe type ground.
Mark S.
 
Last edited:

Ulma Doctor

Infinitely Curious
Active Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
4,298
Likes
3,495
#5
i saw no reference to manufacturer or model of drum switch in the OP's description,
identifying the drum switch may prove to be essential.
there are many types of drum switches, all are not wired the same
 

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#6
Hi woodchucker,
the board contains the centrifugal start switch.
you could possibly make it work, but you'd need to make provision for a momentary start switch.
I'm keeping the board with the cent. switch, just not terminating off the board.
I figure if I go to direct wire and eliminate the thermal, I get closer to a motor designed for the switch.
 

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#7
Ok this ought to do it: View attachment 230156
Disconnect your two start leg wires, blue and yellow and connect them to 3 and 4 on the drum switch. Everything that used to go to that blue, extend with a single wire and connect to 1 on the drum switch. Everything that used to go to yellow, bring it to 6 on the drum switch. Single wire again. Drum 2 not used.
Your hot line wire still goes only to 1 on the motor. Your line neutral should go only to 5 on the drum switch.
That should give you forward and reverse with off in the center. We are breaking the neutral to kill the motor in this configuration. Swap blue and yellow if necessary to get the motor rotation to match the label on the drum switch cover.
Remember that the motor terminal 1 is always live. If that's not acceptable there are alternate connections but would probably require chucking the thermal. Make sure you have a separate safety ground wire to the motor case which connects to a reliable water-pipe type ground.
Mark S.
I am chucking the thermal switch.. And no I don't want neutral as the switched, I would rather hot be switched. Thanks.
 

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#8
i saw no reference to manufacturer or model of drum switch in the OP's description,
identifying the drum switch may prove to be essential.
there are many types of drum switches, all are not wired the same
I included the wiring diagram from the vendor (electric motor warehouse).. Its an RS-1A-SH by Relay and Control Corp.
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#9
OK it's only a little more work to switch both the line wires. Essentially you need to wire as per the "single phase" version on the drum switch diagrams, even though the capacitor and start switch are not shown, the principle is the same; they are just in series with the start winding.
I believe you can keep the thermal too, I think we covered this in an earlier post- let me see if I can find it and I'll repost it.
Mark S.
 

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#10
Ok this ought to do it: View attachment 230156
Disconnect your two start leg wires, blue and yellow and connect them to 3 and 4 on the drum switch. Everything that used to go to that blue, extend with a single wire and connect to 1 on the drum switch. Everything that used to go to yellow, bring it to 6 on the drum switch. Single wire again. Drum 2 not used.
Your hot line wire still goes only to 1 on the motor. Your line neutral should go only to 5 on the drum switch.
That should give you forward and reverse with off in the center. We are breaking the neutral to kill the motor in this configuration. Swap blue and yellow if necessary to get the motor rotation to match the label on the drum switch cover.
Remember that the motor terminal 1 is always live. If that's not acceptable there are alternate connections but would probably require chucking the thermal. Make sure you have a separate safety ground wire to the motor case which connects to a reliable water-pipe type ground.
Mark S.
I actually think you are close, but Drum 2 is used for line in, and Drum 1 as you said, that switches the hot on and off.
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#12
I'm trying to identify the windings but I only see 5 "winding wires" coming out of the motor:
red
yellow
brown
black
darkish blue
should be 6.
there must be a splice, let me look at the 220 volt hookup for a bit..
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#13
Is there a grey wire on your drawing? What is that one connected to the black that goes to L1?
MS
ps yes your drawing looks workable if you can account for all 6 winding wires
 

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#14
I'm trying to identify the windings but I only see 5 "winding wires" coming out of the motor:
red
yellow
brown
black
darkish blue
should be 6.
there must be a splice, let me look at the 220 volt hookup for a bit..
I have
Blue
Yellow
Brwn
Red
Green
Black
Here's a better image, I think this is what you were saying
20170331_133117.jpg
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#16
Does that blue cap wire go straight out to the board or does it take a detour into the windings first. I'm having trouble visualising which two wires are the start winding
Mark
 

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#18
Yellow is one end of the start winding, then which is the other end?
M
I thought the blue was the switch to the start winding. And green was the other end of it.
And then yellow would be the run?

wouldn't the capacitor and centrifigul switch attach to the start winding?
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#19
I was trying to correlate this Baldor diagram to your motor, the colors are different of course but I can't account for the 6 winding ends.
Baldor L1319M Diagram.jpg
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#20
I thought the green one goes from the terminal board to the cap..? No? Something I'm missing here
M
if yellow and green are the start winding your drawing may not work
 
Last edited:

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#21
Here's another diagram that may be helpful: (disregard the colors) (centrifugal misspelled)
StartrandRunwindingsstandard-1.jpg
 

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#24
Green from cap, goes to the back of the term board, which connects to white (which is the thermal overload protection) , then thermal O/L goes to black which attaches to blue which goes to the start (cent switch)
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#25
So if the blue and yellow are the ends of the start winding then your drawing should work.
blue and yellow to 3 and 4.
power to 1 and 5 (or 2 and 6)
remaining two wire groups to opposite corners of drum.
MS
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#26
Do you have a continuity tester or an ohmmeter? I would ring out the windings to be sure. You may have to open the start switch with a piece of cardboard to get valid readings on the cap and the start winding.
MS
 

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#27
so if yellow and blue need to be switched to reverse the motors, is it safe to say that yellow and blue are the start winding?
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#28
No because you said the blue only goes (or comes from) the cap. Does it go anywhere else? I'm not clear on:
A) which colors are the run windings
B) which colors are the start winding- if yellow is one end where is the other?
Until we know for sure you're gonna have fireworks. or a tripped circuit breaker.
Mark S.
 

markba633csi

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
1,322
Likes
528
#29
You don't want to have your centrifugal switch or the cap directly across the line inadvertently, that's why I'm stressing caution here. That's a possibility we want to avoid.
MS
ps I'll check back on this in a few hours... ciao
 

woodchucker

Active Member
Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
1,023
Likes
645
#30
No because you said the blue only goes (or comes from) the cap. Does it go anywhere else? I'm not clear on:
A) which colors are the run windings
B) which colors are the start winding- if yellow is one end where is the other?
Until we know for sure you're gonna have fireworks. or a tripped circuit breaker.
Mark S.
I never said blue goes/comes from cap. Blue goes to the centrifigul switch, which then goes to the cap.
So here's what I have continuity wise:
Blue - Yellow
Red - Green
Blk - Brwn

If you look at the pics you can see how the brown and green are on the backside of the terminal block.
 
[6]
5 [7]