1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

Criterion Boring Heads - DBLs still made?

Discussion in 'GENERAL DISCUSSIONS' started by Alan H, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Alan H

    Alan H United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Spanish Fort
    State:
    Alabama

    -Return to Top-

    I have been studying boring heads for my mill. I have been focused on Criterion.

    Looks like they are now owned by Allied Machine, effective 2013. When I look at the Allied Machine on-line catalog there is no evidence of the DBL series of heads being made now. Looks like they call it a CB now.

    Can someone shed some light on this for me?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  2. Alan H

    Alan H United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Spanish Fort
    State:
    Alabama

    -Return to Top-

    I will answer my own question here. My friend Mark sent me some info by email this morning. He bails me out often.

    Yes, the DBL is still made.

    Here's a link to a catalog on the Walter R. Hammond Co. site: Criterion

    Don't understand why I couldn't find this thru Allied Machine. I think Hammond is a reseller. Who knows!!
     
  3. EmilioG

    EmilioG United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    294
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    HUNTINGTON
    State:
    New York

    -Return to Top-

    Don't buy anything from W.R Hammond before you speak with them. They pulled a bait and switch on me and
    they are correcting the issue, but it's taking forever to get my money back.

    If you're looking for a good Criterion boring head,
    may I suggest you track Ebay. I bought two Criterion DBL 202B's, one NOS in mint condition for a good price.
    Msc sells Criterion heads and shanks. I bought Criterion 3/4" and R8's from Msc on sale.
     
    Ken from ontario and mikey like this.
  4. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Honolulu
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    I would agree with Emilio - eBay is the best place to buy a Criterion head for a good price. New and used heads pop up but new ones go for retail prices. I would suggest a good used head.

    The problem for most hobby guys is to ascertain what a good used head looks like. I'll list what I look for and the other guys can add their criteria:
    • General condition: should look like it was used but was cared for, not thrown around on a bench.
    • All the screws should be there. There should be three gib screws and three bar holding screws. These screws should match; no socket head cap screws!
    • The base of the dovetailed gib should not be cracked off - look carefully.
    • No crash marks anywhere.
    • Look carefully at the hex hole of the feed screw (depth of cut adjuster) for excessive wear. This gives you an idea of how much use the head has seen. I've seen some heads where the hole looked round, not hex shaped.
    • If the head has a shank on it (most do), look at the condition of the shank. This tells you how the user treated the head. If it is a totally scratched up shank then that head was probably not treated well.
    In general, a used head may look used but if it was abused, it will look like it. Superficial scratches will not harm a head but dings, rounded corners, missing screws and a cracked gib tell you a lot about the user.

    Most used DBL-202 heads will go for about $100-130 for a really good used head. If you are lucky, you may find one for much less. Condition will vary; mine was in mint condition for a stupid low price. Patience is your friend on ebay - wait until you see one you like.

    This is what a good used head looks like: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MACHINIST-T...881230?hash=item58f0f79c0e:g:gG8AAOSwXYtYxZH7

    This is what a brand new head looks like: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRITERION-D...576954?hash=item36141b71fa:g:I7gAAOSwB-1YwZuK
    This new head is a 202a, which means it takes 3/8" shanked bars. Smaller bars = less centripetal force and I personally prefer this head over one that takes 1/2" tools. This new head is selling for less than old beat up heads from machine shop owners who have delusions of grandeur.
     
  5. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,219
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Victoria, Texas
    City:
    Victoria
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    I've seen very few abused DB-202 heads. I've seen and own several butchered up DB-203 heads, including the one Mikey send me to rebuild.
    Here's some in process of rebuilding and after pictures of the last one's I rebuilt. Ken
     

    Attached Files:

    mikey and BGHansen like this.
  6. Alan H

    Alan H United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Spanish Fort
    State:
    Alabama

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks for the feedback folks, much appreciated.

    Mikey you mentioned you prefer the DBL202A. Are the 3/8" bars easy to come by as the 1/2"? Would you prefer HSS or carbide tipped bars?
     
  7. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Honolulu
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    Criterion HSS bars are scarce in new condition, regardless of shank size. A full set of six bars used to cost $125-140.00 or more on sale; much higher retail.

    If you go for another brand, like Borite, then either shank size is readily available. I prefer Borite cobalt boring bars; they will cut almost anything in my shop, are easily sharpened and they last forever. These bars leave a fine finish at the lower speeds boring heads require. Between 3/8" and 1/2", the lighter 3/8" bars will let you go slightly faster due to their lower mass. The DBL-202 A heads take 3/8" bars; the 202 B head takes a 1/2" shank.

    I don't use carbide tools in my boring heads; you can and many do. My reasons are that cobalt bars cut well at lower speeds and finish finer than carbide. There is less deflection with a cobalt bar, especially compared to an inserted carbide bar, so I feel they are more accurate. Carbide needs a bigger depth of cut to work well and while they will rough just fine, I find that dialing in a thou or two is not what comes off due to deflection. Many times, I am boring to really tight tolerances and I need that bar to cut what I dial in; cobalt does that for me and carbide often will not. Whether others have similar experiences, I don't know; this is just what I've found in my shop.

    To be fair, I use bench top mills. If I had a big knee mill that could better handle the centripetal forces then I might be able to go faster and carbide would work better ... but I don't. One of the items near the top of my To-Do list is to make up a set of counterbalance weights for my DBL head so I can up my speed without my mill walking down the street. Criterion had a set of these weights that came out just before they were sold to Allied. You can buy them but it comes in a set with the head, bars and weights and sells for north of $500.00. I would rather make them than buy them at that price.

    [​IMG]

    I can just see you guys stroking your chins, saying, "Hmm, I can make that!" :)
     
  8. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Honolulu
    State:
    Hawaii

    -Return to Top-

    Yeah, but, but ... it was beat up when I got it, honest! :)

    Ken is one of the few guys who can bring a hopeless case back to life and I'm glad he accepted it. Otherwise, it would be in a landfill somewhere.
     
    4gsr likes this.

Share This Page