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Craftsman/Atlas 6", what have I gotten my self into?

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kopeck

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#91
Alright, I ordered a bushing but I've also ordered some material that probably a bit more appropriate for my machine.

I think before I take anything apart I'll give the 6061 and the 12L14 a go with and with out the tail stock supporting the work. If I can get decent results I'll probably just leave it as is and make some chips.

If it still leaves a bad finish I'll install the split bushing and go from there.

If all that fails...

https://maine.craigslist.org/bar/d/10-machine-lathe-atlas/6324620633.html

(I'm only somewhat joking...no idea on it's condition but this is the size machine I was looking for).

K
 

Z2V

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#93
That does look like a good deal if it is in good shape. He has 14 day return if it turned out to be out of spec. If memory serves me that thrust bearing alone is around $75, only available from Clausing.
 

westsailpat

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#94
Looks like we are all looking at the same stuff . My spindle is not grate shape , but not bad enough to replace . A new bushing is all I really need , I'll be doing that this winter . I'm really interested to see how yours turns out K .
 

kopeck

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#95
Part of me says I just need to buy the darn thing and be done with it but I want to see how bad mine is first. I did get some 12L15 and 6061, I may make a few passes on those for the fun of it too.

I'm in pretty deep as is, I kind of sealed the deal with the purchase of the start kit from LMS.

K
 

kopeck

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#96
Alright, only had an hour or so to play so I cut a 3" chunk of 6061 and 12L14. All these cuts were made at the same speed and feed rate (.0024").

IMG_1002.JPG

This is a couple of cuts with out tailstock support in 6061. It likes Aluminum but I guess that's no surprise. The finish is OK, even acceptable by my unexperienced standards.

IMG_1003.JPG

There's two things going on in this picture. First this is a cut with the tailstock supporting the piece, it's better then without. The other thing I'm showing is the horizontal deflection, that's nearly .005" at about 2 1/2" from the chuck with just my thumb creating the pressure. I have no idea what should be expected on these machines but that's what my machine is doing.

IMG_1004.JPG

This is showing the vertical deflection, again about 2 1/2" from the chuck. .009"

Next I chucked up some 12L14, from what I've read this stuff is a dream to machine, not so much for me.

IMG_1005.JPG

Here's a light cut, around .005 with out support. You can head the chatter as it cuts. All I have is YouTube to tell be what I should be hearing but this is rough and the chips are very small. In aluminum I was getting more consistant strings of chips.

IMG_1006.JPG

Here's the same cut but with support, better but not great. Still feels like a file when you run your finger nail over it.

IMG_1007.JPG

For what it's worth it faces quite nicely.

I ran out of time to remove the spindle but is it pretty safe to say that most of my problem are probably there?

K
 

kopeck

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#98
*Gulp*

I pulled the trigger.

If I had to do it all over again I would have waited for a better machine but I guess I'm committed now! :)

K
 

kopeck

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#99
The "new" spindle is here. I need to mic it but boy it sure looks good.

I hope to have some time this weekend to tear things apart. I'm sort of wondering if I've done any damage (malformed) my bushing from over tightening. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

K
 

francist

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Oilite bushings are actually pretty springy, a lot more memory than you might imagine. Besides, why go looking for trouble if you don't have to? Hope for the best, and good luck.

-frank
 

kopeck

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OK. I kind of figured I would try them before I did anything.

I'm hoping for the best! :)

K
 

westsailpat

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Hi K , working on it right now ? Waiting to hear how it goes . Mark .
 

kopeck

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Hi K , working on it right now ? Waiting to hear how it goes . Mark .
Just got up from the basement. It's been an interesting night.

The spindle looks great, I would say it came out of a lathe that was never really used. I'm pretty happy even if it was a bit more then I wanted to spend.

I first tried to install it with my new bushings. I could get the spindle in but the amount of friction WAY to high. I could hardly turn it by hand. The new spindle came with it's original bushing so I carefully replaced them and pretty much ran into the same problem. I was not in the best mood.

So I pulled the bushing out and really looked at them closely. Turns out you can see the "pinch point" in them so after a little more investigating I was able to also figure out the orientation they were in. I put everything back in the way it would have come out of it's original home and I was able to turn the spindle by hand with a chuck on it.

Everything was well lubed up so I figured what the heck lets see if they will run in. It spun up, I let it run for 30 second or so then flipped the switch off. There was still enough friction to act as a brake which spun my chuck off! The darn thing put two dings in my ways, I may have let a few bad words slip. Luckily the dents are dead center where neither the carriage or the tail stock will interfere. Dodged a bullet but still not happy.

So I started running it in again (with out a chuck) and it loosened up. After a while I put the chuck back on and to a few passes on the 12L14 steel and got some much improved results (sorry for the blurry photo, my phone wouldn't focus).

IMG_1015.JPG

The spindle spins well now with just a touch of pressure from the screws. The housing feels warm to the touch after running for a while but not hot enough that I can't keep my finger on it.

The reading from my dial indicator shows (on the same piece of steel from my photos above) a pretty big improvement vertically, just a few thousands down from .010" Horizontal play didn't improve all that much, .004" down from .005". Maybe that's just normal, I mean you have to have some play in there. I also noticed that it does vary if the machine is warm vs. cold.

So overall I'm happy. I'm mad the chuck came off but it's not then end of the world.

Now a question. I'm using some tap cutting oil I had around. It seem to turn into instant smoke when cutting. Is that normal? Remember I don't have a clue what I'm doing here, I don't seem to see the guys on YouTube have these problems though.

K
 
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Z2V

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Good to hear you were able to get a new spindle and see a reasonable improvement. I bet it was a shock to see the chuck come spinning off at you. You will know this machine very well by the time you get her dialed in!
 

kopeck

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Good to hear you were able to get a new spindle and see a reasonable improvement. I bet it was a shock to see the chuck come spinning off at you. You will know this machine very well by the time you get her dialed in!
Surprised is one way to put it. The way that sucker bounced around I'm surprised it didn't do more damage.

Yeah, I've had this things completely apart. It's neat, super simple.

I do kind of think that long term it's going to be to small for what I want to do BUT I sure can learn to make chips with it!

K
 

Z2V

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I sold my 07301 a month ago and bought a bigger one but wish I had the room to have kept the Craftsman
 

francist

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Good job K, I'm glad that worked out for you.

As for the smoke, some fluids are just worse than others. I used to use Tapmatic Gold and it always smoked like crazy. Masters thread cutting oil, not so much, so I use that mostly now. Lots of different flavours out there tho, and everybody seems to have their own favourite. A small fan (dashboard size) is nice to have close by too just to keep it from lingering.

-frank
 

westsailpat

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Hi K , a few questions . Did you mic. the spindle and the bushings before assembly ? That probably wasn't a good question because we would be looking for a very small size like .0005 maybe I don't know .? Well it doesn't really matter now because you are back together and running . Monday morning quarter back here , I think to just slip the bush on the spindle and check the fit would be interesting . Now the big question , did you drill and split the bushing ? My machine I think has the original bushings and they are drilled and split (just one side) . A thought here , when checking for spindle play I would not check with the chuck on . It is possible that the jaws are worn and when you chuck up a bar and put the indicator to it you might be seeing the bar just move in the chuck ?
I'm glad that you are happy with the end results . Putting a ding in any machine is always a melancholy moment , we have all been there .
As far as cutting oil , I really dislike the heavy sulfur threading oil IMO it smells horrible and it smokes easy . I have been using this stuff .
http://www.tacomascrew.com/Products...MIm7mF1dWE1wIViZ9-Ch0dygmWEAQYASABEgKNX_D_BwE
Also I like water soluble oil , but wouldn't really recommend it . Its expensive and if you don't get it off (like under the compound) it will rust .
Keep us posted ! Mark .
 

kopeck

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The new spindle had pretty much no wear, my bore gauge is to big to work in the bushings so I can't say. I need to remeasure the old spindle, I'll try and do that tomorrow. Visually the old bushings that came with the spindle looked great.

I think what happened to the new bushings is I put so much pressure on them I kind of crushed them so they're snug now. The back bushing was very snug even when it was out of the machine and I tried dry fitting it.

I'll try checking things without the chuck. I need more free time! :)

K
 

wa5cab

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Another bad "feature" of water soluble oil is that if you let it sit in the reservoir, it will eventually turn into a solid.
 

kopeck

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So the Relton Rapid Tap doesn't smoke to bad?

Two or three cuts with the stuff I'm using and the haze it pretty decent. My wife wasn't thrilled. :)

K
 

westsailpat

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The Rapid Tap will smoke if you get it really hot , but not like the black sulfur oil and it doesn't have that awful smell . A nice feature about that can that is shown in the RT link is that you unscrew cap and take out the "application nozzle' (for lack of a better word) you flip it around and then screw the cap on over it and cut the tip off . The tube is about 4" long and about .100 at the tip , so application is precision , if you need the hole bigger you just cut further down the tube (the hole is tapered) . At least that's the way it was when I was buying it by the case , I bought a can the other day and it came like this https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...MIt5zjqN-J1wIVg7fACh1BuQRkEAQYASABEgLYwvD_BwE
I was kind of disappointed I really liked the can , but the plastic bottle does have a nice app tip that you can flip up .
 
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westsailpat

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Another bad feature about water soluble at least in a production environment is that you are constantly skimming the sump for tramp oil (I just used a vacuum) and now you are stuck with waste oil . One more thing and this is the worst , say you don't use the sump for a week when you do turn it on it smells like something died in there .
 

kopeck

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Well, I think I'll shy away from the water soluble stuff then. :)

The stuff I have now instantly turns to smoke, light cuts, doesn't matter. It just tap oil so it was never meant for any kind of speed.

K
 
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