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Craftsman/Atlas 6", what have I gotten my self into?

Discussion in 'ATLAS, CRAFTSMAN & AA' started by kopeck, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    Good morning,

    First off I'm 100% new to machine tools. I play with old farm machinery and often run into NLA parts. I've wanted a lathe for a quite some time and had been keeping an eye open. I've also watched a pile of YouTube videos though the years, Mr. Pete and Keith Rucker have kept me occupied for hours.

    Anyway, I picked up a Craftsman 101.07301. It's pretty complete, came with a new motor and drum switch. A 3 jaw Delta chuck and a 4 jaw chuck with no name that seems to be well loved. The gears are in great shape, the spindle has a little play but I'll replace the bushing/bearings. The carriage and compound are in really good shape, no nicks or anything, it does have a broken handle on the cross feed but from what I see that's a really common problem. It also came with a pile of tooling, some of it brand new/never ground and a bench that needs a new top (question about that later).

    It's smaller then what I had planned on but the price was right and it was just a few minutes down the road. To me this is a learning tool more then anything, I need to start somewhere and this guy seems like it should fill the roll.

    So now the questions:

    It was really dirty when I picked it up. I get the impression that who ever had it before me just didn't want to clean it up and that's why it was sold. Not to rusty, just grime and grit.

    I've cleaned up the ways pretty well, I soaked them in WD-40, and used a green scotch bright pad to work the grime off then I wiped everything down with lacquer thinner and reoiled. The carriage runs really smooth the first half of the bed but as you get to the tail stock is stiffens up. I know this is a sign of wear. I took my mics and went all over the darn thing. I'm finding almost no wear in the width of the ways but I do see a little less then a half a thousands wear in the height. I guess that's enough feel in that little hand wheel. The ways are also kind of beat up, quite a few nicks and such although they don't seem to catch the carriage. How much is this bed going to drive me crazy in the long run?

    The bench it's on is decent other then the top. The PO made it out of bunch of 2x6s and they're all cupped and anything but flat. I have some 3/4 finish plywood at home. If I doubled that up would that make an adequate top?

    Anything else I should be looking for? Like I said this will get me started. Sure is a cute little machine, if machines can be cute.

    IMG_0947.JPG
     
  2. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Welcome to Hobby Machinist! That lathe will give you lots of parts for projects, learning, and great fun. You seem to be on the correct path. All used lathes have wear, but that does not prohibit them from making excellent parts. Please follow all the safety rules and don't attempt things too extreme for the lathe and your skill level. Machining does not go nearly as well when the machine or the machinist is out of action...
     
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  3. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Kopeck, there are shims under the carriage that can be added/removed to adjust but due to the bed wear you may not be able to achieve travel
    all the way to the tailstock end without making it too loose at the chuck end.
    That's a good little lathe, you'll have fun.
    Mark S.
     
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  4. westsailpat

    westsailpat United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hi kopeck , if you double up the 3/4 that should be fine . That's what I did , screwed and bonded together and finished the edges with oak . I'm seeing on your lathe that the rear riser has two bolt holes , I guess I'm missing something as the way I understand it the 101.07301 6" has only one mount hole at the rear .
    http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman6inchmk1/
    Goodies . http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas-6-inch-lathe-accessories/
    By the way us Craftsman/Atlas people have a spot we like to hang out on .
    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/atlas-craftsman-aa.86/
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  5. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    Hey Westsailpat,

    Are you talking about the legs on the tail stock side? I think you are and you have great eyes to pick that out, I've been looking at these things every evening since I got it and never picked up on that. It is a 101.07301:

    IMG_0941.JPG

    The other interesting thing is the counter shaft frame is also different then almost every other unit I've seen in pictures. The ones I see are all kind of curved so the motor can sit underneath, this one is straight. The PN on the main frame is L9-20A which is a legit Atlas part but doesn't (from my research) seem to be common.

    Thanks for the heads up on the Atlas section, I'm wondering if I should move this over there?

    Bob & Mark S.,

    Thanks for the info. I did see a shim in the front side of the carriage but none in the back. I think I'll just get it going as is and see how it goes. If I find it's out too much I guess I could always look for another bed OR upgrade. :) I'm getting WAY ahead of my self...

    K
     
  6. westsailpat

    westsailpat United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hey KO , the 101 . 07301 is a early model Atlas (40'-56') and is referred to correctly as a 6" as I have to come to find out from this knowledgeable group of people . The newer version is called the 618 . Some of the model changes are the 6" has the tailstock riser with a center located mount hole , the newer 618 has it's (2) mount holes on the side . And that is what is confusing to me . Another difference is the headstock bearings we ,6" owners have bushings where the 618 has Timken bearings . Some say a bushing headstock will give you a better finish . For the spindle (chuck) mount , the 6" has a TPI of 8 and the 618 has a TPI of 10 . There are some other differences but I forget at the moment . The counter shaft is the original , the curved ones came later .
    I wouldn't go to the trouble of moving your post , it's all good . But for the future ... Keep us posted , always good to have a new friend .
     
  7. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    Just to be clear, this is what your talking about right?

    IMG_0947.jpg

    When you say tail stock riser I'm thinking of the tail stock it's self. I don't see any extra bolts there. Maybe I'm just blind. :)

    K
     
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  8. DaveInMi

    DaveInMi United States Active Member Active Member

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    The "drag" closer to the tailstock may well be from wear. Do check the rack for dirt or grit on that end as that could offer some resistance too.
     
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  9. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    I'm sure it's mostly wear. Working and cleaning has made things more useable.

    I'm hoping to pull the carriage this weekend. I have no doubt it could use a cleaning as well!

    K
     
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  10. T Bredehoft

    T Bredehoft Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Just a couple of suggestions, you've probably already done these,
    1) turn the chuck jaws around, they're set now for holding on the OD of a larger 3" to 5" part.
    2) turn the compound so the handle is on the right, at about 30ยบ instead of 45. We all keep it that way, so if the need comes to cut threads, were already set.
    3) you will need a tool holder to hold the cutting tool. It appears that you have a High Speed bit clamped on the rocker, an Armstrong tool holder is needed there. Eventually you will find a better way to hold tools, but for now this will work.
     
  11. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    Hi Tom,

    Thanks for the input.

    1) It's a 3 Jaw chuck and the jaws are not reversible and of course it's missing the other set of jaws. It's a Delta #957, eBay turned up another chuck but no jaws. I know running it this way would be asking for trouble. I might start out with the 4 jaw since I can set the jaws the right way on that sucker. I'll just have to get used to setting work up. I've got plenty of dial indicators and bases from engine building...

    2) Yep, planned on that as well. I just keep forgetting to bring my allen wrenches in from the garage. I've been in the cleaning mode more then anything. The way it's setup now seems really awkward.

    3) That's the way I bought it. The only tool holder that came with it is way to big for the lathe. I'm sort of debating finding a few of the holders like you suggest or just going for broke and getting the quick change type from the Little Machine Shop. Their kit would get me a lot of things I'm missing plus I could start cutting it properly made tools, not something I tried grinding my self.

    We have a used tool place in town that has a lot of this random stuff, I think I need to go dig around and see what I can turn up.

    K
     
  12. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    Did some more cleaning over the weekend. My ways are really beat up. There's wear too but like you guys said that's to be expected. Most of it seems to be on the edges, if I back the gib screws off just a hair it will run from one side to the other just fine. Of course that leaves a bit of slop down by the head stock so I guess it's finding a compromise.

    The good news is my uncle is going to take a look at it when he's in town this week. He's a retired from Pratt & Whitney, spent his years there doing machine setup and repair. Scraping used to be one of his specialties. No idea on how much he can help me but I suspect he's going to be be able to evaluate the old girl a lot better then I will be able to!

    One thing I did find is the counter shaft my machine is toast. A new one is pretty expensive, is there any reason I can't just get a piece of 1/2" rotary shaft from McMaster and have a friend with a mill machine it for me? That shaft isn't anything exotic it? I can't imagine it would be.

    IMG_0957.JPG IMG_0958.JPG IMG_0959.JPG

    K
     
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  13. Dave Paine

    Dave Paine United States Active Member Active Member

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    I would first remove the cone pulleys from the countershaft. You can then measure the dimensions for a replacement shaft. It may not be all the same diameter.

    I like to use O1 drill rod. Good dimensional consistency and can be hardened if needed.
     
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  14. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    I've done that already. The cone pulley was spinning on the shaft, someone didn't tighten down the set screws and it chewed the heck out of the shaft.

    It it's Mics to 1/2".

    Drill rod would be a good option too.

    K
     
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  15. Dave Paine

    Dave Paine United States Active Member Active Member

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    Another option is to get someone to weld up the existing shaft. I had to do this with a shaft I messed up in the gearbox of my tractor mower. No longer parts available. I had friend fill in the hole with MIG weld, then turned it down to dimension.
     
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  16. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    I had looked into this once on similar kind of shaft. By the time they welded, machined and straitened the darn thing I could buy a new one for less.

    I think I'm going to try some O1 drill rod, that should be the most uniform. I'll just keep an eye on it.

    Question for the Atlas folks. The spindle bearings/bushings I pulled out had holes in them where the oil cups are located, the new ones do not. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they're not suppose to have holes, the oil just finds it's way though the porous bushing? Is that right?

    K
     
  17. DaveInMi

    DaveInMi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Seems to me a hole would be better. Unless I'm missing something, it should be pretty easy to do.
     
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  18. westsailpat

    westsailpat United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I need to get new bushings too ( I'm lazy but hey the old ones aren't that bad )) and I plan to drill the oil hole and split on one side for adjustment . Back to post #7 , yes the part you circled is what I'm talking about . On mine , possibly a early 6" there is just the one hole at the end in the center . Maybe yours is a later one ?
     
  19. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A hole in the bushing will give you immediate oil to the shaft/bushing interface, and the excess will then exit the area unless there are seals in place to retain the oil. The idea of the blind hole to the back side of an Oilite bushing is that the oil will gradually enter the bushing and work its way to the shaft/bushing interface to do its job, and the excess oil will more or less remain above the bushing, gradually replenishing the oil as it exits the area. To work that way, you need an Oilite or other bushing in place that will retain oil in its pores. If the entrance hole to bushing interface gets plugged up with crud or dried oil, it will stop replenishing the bushing. Ideally the bushing would have an annular groove in the housing around the middle of the bushing length for access of oil to bushing.
    https://www.oilite.com/
     
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  20. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    For what it's worth they're pretty darn easy to get out. The hardest part is getting the key out, it doesn't look like it can come out but it will. I just found where I read that the bearing shouldn't have a hole, it's right in the Craftsman manual. Bob pretty much sums is up what I read about these type bushings. I'm going to go without the hole and just keep an eye on things. I found my shaft has some wear, around .0015 (guessing, between .001 and .002) on both ends. I was worried but the one I found on eBay looks no better. I suspect they're all worn, nature of the beast, I kind of wish it was a Timken bearing unit but it is what it is. This is a learning tool for me, I'm not trying to make a living with it. I do want it make it the best it can be with out breaking the bank, which looks like it would be easy to do. eBay is dangerous. :)

    As far as the holes in the foot I have no idea! I think mine is an early one, it has the early style counter shaft setup. I'm no expert, I just google things in my spare time. :)

    K
     
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  21. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Hi kopeck,
    you don't have to be an expert to enjoy machines and machining!
    it's a swift descent into the rabbit hole my new friend, - come down with the rest of us !!!
     
  22. Z2V

    Z2V United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hi kopeck

    Like you I'm new to machines and also have a 07301. The bushings on mine were shot when I got it so they got replaced first off. The old bushings I removed had no holes in them and the new bushings were installed without modifications. I have found that I add about two drops of oil in each oil cup per hour of run time. On the tail riser, mine has only one mounting bolt.
    It's taken me some time but I'm finally able to get some pretty smooth cuts with it. I turned some right hand threads this week and will try some left hand next. Then on to boring and internal threads.
    You mentioned a QCTP, I bought the OXA from Little Machinshop, seems to work great, best tool money spent to this point.
    I hope you enjoy your new lathe as much as I am mine!!

    Jeff
     
  23. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. I've got the old girl broke down to the point where only the head stock casting and bed/legs remain. All the gears have been cleaned (the PO completely covered everything in heavy grease, almost like wheel bearing grease). I'm going to hit the bed castings with the pressure washer and start putting it back together. I just need to wait for the new belt to get here....

    I've also got the new top for the stand glued up.

    Progress....

    Z2V, did you get the kit from Little Machine shop or just the tool post?

    K
     
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  24. Z2V

    Z2V United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    kopeck
    On the tool post, I got the the tool post with five tool holders and added three additional holders for turning tools. Money well spent in my opinion.
    I used a link belt on mine. I honestly can't say one is better than the other but I don't have to remove the spindle to change the belt, not that I will wear the belt out in my lifetime, but I did shorten it two links.
    Keep posting pics !!
     
  25. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    Howdy,

    I started a thread in the machine repair section that can be seen here:

    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/craftsman-atlas-6-what-have-i-gotten-my-self-into.61670/

    But I thought I would move over to this section since I find my self reading/digging here.

    Just a quick update. The lathe is more or less back together. I need to take a picture of it cleaned up and sitting on it's reworked bench. I'm pretty happy so far. I've had to scrounge up a few parts on eBay and of course there's plenty of other stuff on there that I would love to buy but I need to see chips before I invest any more. :)

    I did get a new counter shaft made up from O1 drill rod. For what ti's worth the original was surprisingly soft so I suspect me new one will work just fine.

    One question though. My machine came with a drum switch. Since this is a threaded spindle/chuck is this a good idea? I need to redo the wiring, it's my next project and was wonder which way I should go. The drum switch looks to be pretty new as is the motor.

    Thanks,

    K
     
  26. RandyM

    RandyM United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I know you didn't specifically request this, but I thought it best. I moved your original thread to this section from the Resto one and I merged your one post of your new thread in to this one. This will keep everything better organized. Hope you don't mind.
     
  27. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    Not at all, it really makes the most sense anyway. The thread was going to bounce between restoration/repair and use soon enough, just seemed to make more sense for it to live here.

    Thanks!

    K
     
  28. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks, Randy. I had the same thought this morning when I read the email of his post but didn't have time then to do anything.

    To address your drum switch question, yes, with a threaded spindle nose, you don't want to try to turn (including thread) anything held in a screw-on chuck or face plate. But as you have the switch and motor, you may as well go ahead and use it. Just don't try to run in reverse except under the following circumstances. Collets held in the spindle are safe (that does not include collets held in a screw-on collet chuck like some ER chucks). And if you ever need to do any OD grinding, with most grinders you will need to run the spindle in reverse so that the work piece surface is not running in the same direction as the grinding wheel surface.
     
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  29. kopeck

    kopeck United States Steel Registered Member

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    That's true, I don't have a draw bar but that doesn't mean I won't get one someday and I do have the switch already. I need to rewire, it works now but the insulation is giving up the ghost. I think it might be 10ga too, if not it has super heavy insulation on it.

    It's getting close:

    IMG_0977.JPG

    IMG_0978.JPG

    I have some maple to edge the plywood with.

    K
     
  30. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    K,

    I don't recall whether or not up above you ever said what HP the motor is. But it would need to be #10 only if the run is quite long or if the motor is 3/4 HP or larger (which it should not be). And if the motor is running off of 110/120 VAC. For 1/2 HP & 120 VAC, #12 is adequate. For 1/2 HP & 240 VAC, #14 AWG is adequate. However, using larger than needed wire won't hurt anything (except maybe your wallet).
     

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