Craftsman 109/atlas 618

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Jester966

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I know the 109 is not an Atlas.

I have an Atlas 618 that I am rebuilding. It was in very rough shape cosmetically, had no extra gears or tooling, but was cheap and had no major functional issues. A 109 just popped up in my area for $130 OBO - it comes with what looks like could be a complete set of change gears, four-jaw chuck, and tailstock drill chuck. Are any of these items interchangeable with my 618 with or without modification?

I'll try to grab it for $100 regardless. It looks like it's in decent shape, and I figured even if the above are not useable on my 618, I could do a quick refurb and resell for a profit. My first (personal) lathe was a 109, about 8-9 years - I rebuilt it but barely had a chance to try it before I sold it.

Sorry, I could look up the specs myself but am at work right now (nights) and will be sleeping as soon as I get home - hoping to have an e-mail from the seller and go pick it up when I wake up this afternoon.

Thanks
 
I believe the gears can be used on either machine.

IIRC the tailstock on the AA 109 is Morse Taper 0 (MT0) but the Atlas 618 has MT1

The spindle threads are also different ( 1/2"-20 or 3/4"-16) for the AA 109 and either (1"-8 or 1"-10) for the Atlas 618.
 
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Jester,

Please let us know what if any difference there is between the AA gears and the Atlas gears. The only thing that ever seems to get posted on this subject is that someone will write that he "thinks" that the gears are interchangeable.

The drill chuck will have to have the arbor changed as if it fits the AA, it is #0 MT. As Rich wrote, the 618 tailstock taper is #1 MT. There probably isn't any practical or economical way to use the 4-jaw chuck on the 618 if it fits the AA.

If the AA is a Dunlap without lead screw it is a 109.0702. If it has a lead screw (since it has change gears, it must), it is a 109.0703. In either case, the spindle nose threads are 1/2"-24.
Otherwise, it is either a 109.20630 or 109.21270 and has 1/2"-20 threads.
The Atlas 618 has 1"-10 nose threads. The only Atlas built metal lathe with 1"-8 threads is the 101.07301. The 101.07300 (only built for one year 1938), had 3/4"-16 threads.
 
Thanks for the info.
I guess someone beat me to it and bought it for the asking price. It would have been nice to have the gears if they matched, but if the four-jaw wouldn't be usable anyway then... whatever.

I've had the bed ground and professionally painted with an aircraft grade epoxy. I think I am probably better off without the 109 as I want to make a collet chuck for the 618, and my plan was to make or buy cut gears for it which I'm sure would be smoother running than the atlas or craftsman gears anyway.
 
I may be falling for clap-trap but I've read that the 109 is a rather delicate lathe that is not for beginners. They often have bent spindles. Yada-yada-yada.

They are cute little things and I had thought about getting one until I saw that type of stuff about them. I'm glad I bought my 101.07301. There are two 618's available near me and I'd certainly like to check them out if I had the money to buy one right now. I think I'll shy away from the 109's until I hear some better things about them.
 
I agree - I wouldn't buy one myself either, except for $100 it seemed like a cheap way to get gears and a 4-jaw, and some extra HSS tooling which it came with. I didn't actually want the lathe itself.
 
Jester,

Of course, if the 4-jaw chuck actually fit the AA, it wouldn't fit the Atlas anyway. But assuming that the change gears do fit the Atlas 6" models, $100 would have been a good price for a more or less full set.

Dan,

We have an official site policy against running down anyone's equipment. But the AA lathes have a 1/2" diameter spindle compared to around 1" for the Atlas 6" models. Strength of solid round stock varies as the cross section, which varies as the square of the radius. Both spindles are hollow so it's a little more complicated than that. But the Atlas spindle is considerably stronger. When both groups of lathes were available new, say in 1957, the 101.07301 sold for $173.50 versus $57.00 for the 109.21270, or 3:1. Of course the former has a countershaft and 16 speeds versus 6 speeds for the latter. In 1959, the 101.21400 (Atlas 618 with Craftsman badge) price was down to $167.50 (probably because of economy of scale) and the 109.21270 was $59.50. On the other hand, the 109's take up less bench space. Most of them are 6x12's and without the countershaft and the back gears hanging out the back, the depth required is less.
 
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Didn't mean to be running down 109's. I was just repeating what I've read and suggesting that one should check the spindle if what I read was true. Every machine has its strengths and weaknesses ( please read: http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/109/109a.html ). By pointing out what may be one potential weakness I didn't mean to be running down the whole machine. I was also hoping that someone could either verify what I have read or discredit it. They seem to be a lighter machine and if you take that limitation into account I'm sure one can have a lot of fun with one.

I still like the looks of them and would like to consider one in the future. When/if I do consider buying a particular 109 you can be sure I'm going to check the spindle so that I know ahead of time whether or not it will need to be replaced. Buyer beware! Knowledge is power.

I'm still watching some 109's on craigslist ( http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/isnt-this-a-craftsman-109.39408/#post-338053 ) and doing a little reading about them but currently I have my sights set on a 618. I'm going to look at it tomorrow afternoon.

Sorry that I came across poorly. I'll be more careful.
 
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109 (AA Manufacture) lathes are pretty, and can do most any within ifs small
compass, but the Atlas will do real Work.........BLJHB.
 
Dan,

My opening comment wasn't aimed at you particularly. Just that I have to be a little careful what I say about various machines. It is a fact that bent spindles happen not to be uncommon on 109's. But you can bend or break anything if you persistently overload it. Fortunately, we do have (or I do if I've forgotten to upload them) decent machining drawings for several of the 109 parts, including the spindle for the 109.20630 and the front spindle bearing for it and the 109.21270. So buying one and finding that it does have a bent spindle isn't necessarily a show stopper.
 
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