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Complete Newbie - Bridgeport 2J (Adcock-Shipley) - Wiring Questions

Discussion in 'BRIDGEPORT MACHINES INC. & B'PORT CLONES' started by Nick Hacking, Jan 22, 2017.

  1. Nick Hacking

    Nick Hacking United Kingdom H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Dear All,

    I have recently acquired a milling machine: it's a Bridgeport with a 2J head, made under licence by Adcock and Shipley in the UK. I'd be grateful for any and all information that you might be able to offer.

    My first problem is to work out how to wire it up. I think I can trace out the wiring myself but help would be much appreciated.

    The serial number is JB34020. The motor is 3-phase, 2-HP, rated for 380 to 420 V.
    It has a power feed on the table. With the help of the internet I've managed to identify this as an Align CE-500P. It has a coolant pump. It's also been fitted with a Mitutoyo 2-axis DRO but I'm ignoring that for now as it doesn't interconnect with the electrics (apart from drawing power).

    The front control panel contains a number of switches which look fairly straightforward but, for reasons that I haven't yet fathomed, inside the panel are some transformers.

    There is a box of electrical gizmos on the right side of the machine which is going to take a lot of figuring out. I've discovered that one of the components is a Crompton CC0910 switching unit, sitting on a CR09/1.6 thermal cut-out. There are two transformers and handful of (?switching relays?) that I have yet to come to grips with.

    I'll see if I can post some pictures... Head Plate.jpg Motor Plate.jpg Head Plate.jpg Motor Plate.jpg Name Plate.jpg Align (Bestline) CE-500P.jpg
     
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  2. Nick Hacking

    Nick Hacking United Kingdom H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Here is the front panel... Front Panel.jpg Electrics Front.jpg
     
  3. Nick Hacking

    Nick Hacking United Kingdom H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    And this is the box on the side Electrics Right.jpg
     
  4. Nick Hacking

    Nick Hacking United Kingdom H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    This is the same, but with annotations: Electrics R Annotated.jpg

    A) is the main cable duct that runs forards, to the front control panel
    B) is a screened cable that contains four black wires and an earth - it doesn't currently connect to anything (could this be the 3-phase supply?)
    C) is the On-Off switch
    D) is a transformer
    E) is the cable duct that runs to the power feed
    F) is the Crompton switching unit and thermal cut-out
    G) appears to be a 3-phase circuit breaker
    H) is another transformer
    K1 to K3 and M1 to M3 I'm a little unsure about
    N) is the 3-phase power socket for the motor
    P) is another 3-phase power socket. It doesn't seem to be used.

    So - where do I start? Does any of this look familiar to anyone?

    Kind wishes,

    Nick
     
  5. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hi Nick,
    i can illuminate a bit,

    B) yes, the 4 black wires/earth are the input supply- if there are no other cables coming from the mill.

    M1,M2,M3 are current overload devices, they open the supply circuit to the intended motor should there be an overcurrent situation or fault
    K1,K2,K3, F are magnetic contactors. they switch main power to operate the motors

    you'll need 3 phase supply to hook it up, or you'll need an RPC
    if you have 3 phase supply, hook it up and ground the unit.
    you can test rotation by depressing the center moveable portion of K1 , with an non conductive device like a dowel, popsicle stick, tongue depressor, etc
    if everything is right a motor will operate, eventually you'll reach the spindle motor
    repeat for K2, K3

    when you get to the spindle motor, it should turn Clockwise in the forward control position.
    if the motor goes in reverse in the forward control position, simply reverse 2 of the 4 Black input supply wires and the direction of the motor will now be reversed

    for your safety and longevity, i would suggest doing some reading on control systems and 3 phase distribution so that you would have a better grasp of what you are attempting to repair.
    i can't emphasize enough that you can hurt or kill yourself if you become part of a 400 volt circuit looking for earth
    i'm happy to help out where i can
    all the best,
    mike:)
     
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  6. Nick Hacking

    Nick Hacking United Kingdom H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I don't know if it helps, but from Lathes.co.uk I've found that the machine serial number is inside the side-door.
    The Adcock & Shipley numbers are:
    Serial: 4800G
    Order: 32915 5-67

    So, I surmise, it was built in May 1967 and the power-feed is a much later add-on.
     
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  7. Nick Hacking

    Nick Hacking United Kingdom H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Mike, that's brilliant, thanks.
    I'm sorry, I posted the bit about the serial numbers before I read your post.

    If I never post again, it's probably because I ignored your good advice :)

    Kind wishes,

    Nick
     
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  8. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You are very welcome, anytime.
     
  9. Nick Hacking

    Nick Hacking United Kingdom H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    ... Further to Mike's information:

    it looks like M1/K1 protect the main motor,

    M2/K2 control the (unused) auxiliary socket,

    M3/K3 must be for the coolant pump,

    The Crompton unit has been added on for the table feed motor.

    I *do* have three phase, but at the moment it isn't connected and doesn't go to my workshop, so I was going to use a VFD to step up from 240 V AC (1 phase) to 415 (3 phase) Can I anticipate any problems with this?

    Kind wishes,

    Nick
     
  10. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious H-M Supporter-Premium

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    i think you may have a problem going from 240 single phase to 415 three phase with a VFD
    you most likely will need an RPC and to add either a three phase transformer or 3 step up transformers to get your 415v
    unless there is a VFD that does that- if so LMK, i'd buy many in a second
     
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  11. Nick Hacking

    Nick Hacking United Kingdom H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks, again, Mike.

    The more I look into this, the more I think that a 240 to 415 V conversion is either going to be very expensive, or a fairly shoddy solution. The cheap static converters seem to fudge two fake phases with an inductive circuit and a capacitor. The cheap rotary converters are not much better. These solutions seem to start at about £200 (the £ and $ are roughly at parity at the time of writing). A decent electronic unit with a step-up transformer is over £1,000.

    I could pay an electrician to connect up the 3-phase supply in my garage, and run that out to the workshop, but that's going to cost a lot more than £1,000.

    I think I probably need to completely re-wire the machine. If I'm right, the main motor can be reconfigured to run from 240 V - so a simple VFD would cope with that. The suds motor can be ignored initially: I don't think it would be too difficult to change it for a 240 V single-phase pump. The DRO will run from 240 V. The table drive is 110 V which is easy to supply from a small step-down transformer. While I'm at it, I'll convert the front panel controls to low-voltage. It looks like most of the existing innards are going to end up in the "interesting parts" box.

    I'll be away for most of the week. When I get back I'll have a proper look at the motor and its switch to see if reconfiguration is feasible.

    Kind wishes,

    Nick
     
  12. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious H-M Supporter-Premium

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    if the motors are tapped for 240v, you are golden!
    you may also be able to re tap the transformers to 240v operation as well
    a low voltage control system is not a bad way to have a go either.
    a lot of the European equipment i service run 24v dc control systems and 120vac systems as well
    the vfd will then do the job, as you wish

    it sounds like you got a plan
    let me know if i can help out
    all the best
     
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  13. Clogs

    Clogs Greece Steel Registered Member

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    Hi Nick, just seen ur post ......did u ever get sorted........?.........
    had to do a partial repair to the wiring on my J Head, 3phase, 440 volt, UK machine.......standard wiring is a bit of a disaster........I have a good conversion that I'll start as soon as poss......it will eliminate all the original crap and contactors........
    happy to pass on any details of the original wiring or what the mods will be........not that far away, just across the channel........
    Don't know if u can private message me on this site............
    Clogs.............
     
  14. Nick Hacking

    Nick Hacking United Kingdom H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks, Clogs.

    My main problem is the motor which looks as though it's 415V only.

    I was back at home this weekend and managed to spend a couple of hours out in the workshop. I took off the motor - which was very easy - two nuts fastening to two handles and the whole thing simply lifted off.

    There doesn't seem to be an easy way of configuring the motor for 240V: the only wiring is the forward-reverse switch - which is marked 2-1-0-1-2.

    I thought I'd see if I could get the motor casing open, to see what field coil and stator wires might be accessible.
    To begin to do this, I tried to remove the pulley stack:

    I took out the two grub screws, from the side of the pulley stack,
    I removed the circlip on the end of the shaft,
    I warmed up the pulley stack with a blow-torch,
    I used a gear puller.
    I succeeded only in tearing out two pieces from the bottom flange of the pulley stack. Not good.

    There's an electric motor specialist in Preston, not too far from my work. I think I might drop the whole assembly off there, explain the problem, and ask for a quote to convert it to 240V 3-phase. If they cannot help, or the cost is prohibitive, I'll have to mount a new motor.

    I have seen 3-phase 380V generators (petrol) on eBay for under £200. I did wonder about buying one, taking off the engine and driving it with a big single-phase 240V motor. However, it's going to be noisy and inefficient: and if the original generator costs only £200, one does have to wonder how long the alternator is going to last under load.

    Fortunately, this is a long-term hobby project, so there's no rush....

    Kind wishes,

    Nick
     

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