CNC: Lining up the ducks. Asking software questions...

[Ray C]

Cody,

For sure, I would not want to do G-code on a long-term basis. I think it's important though to really understand and be able perform the basics. I'm sure the CAM programs have improved and probably create fairly compact and optimized code.

... I called Alibre (GeoMagic) and the MecSoft CAM plugin is running about 1200 bucks. What I may well do in the beginning is find a program like the one you suggest and go with that for a while.


Ray

If you are capable of writing your own G-code efficiently, there is no reason to invest in anything other than a machine control software like Mach.

I guess it depends on what you are making, but writing G-code by hand is laborious. Anything besides simple circles and squares gets complicated quickly, and even these simple shapes require calculating the offset for the bit size and shape.

I would HIGHLY recommend a CAM software. It takes the CAD drawing you have doubtlessly already generated, you tell it about the machine, tooling, etc, and it makes all of the calculations for you. It is a HUGE time-saver, even for simple items, and practically mandatory for the commercial environment.

These programs aren't extremely expensive, not sure about the Alibre plugins, but the software I use is ~$150 per seat (Vectric). And it even has rudimentary CAD built in!

-Cody

 

[DMS]

My experience with AlibreCAM is that the code it produces is not particularly "smart" or "compact". It works mostly, but the paths it chooses are sometimes...perplexing. From what I can tell, that is the main differentiator between a "low end" cam system, and a "high end" cam system.

When I first started, I couldn't bring myself to plunk down the cash for a CAD/CAM package, so I was hand coding all my GCODE. It can be a little tedious, but you tend to build up libraries of code that you can pull it (for say, pocketing, or facing). The code I produced by hand was MUCH faster and more efficient than the CAM output, but unless you are making a bunch of the same thing, it probably doesn't matter that much.

The nice thing about LinuxCNC, is that it has some "extensions" over the the standard GCODE functionality to make programming easier. Specifically, named variables, and rich flow control.

 

[geotek]

For 3D design I use Alibre. It seems their support has gone down the tubes since they were acquired by 3D Systems. I have tried for several months to get an upgrade, but I have never received a return call. Same goes for trying to move one of my licenses to another computer, I can't get any response. I certainly would not advise anyone to go the Geomagic way.

For 2D design, I use DraftSight. It is a free (for home use) "clone" of AutoCAD and it works great. It is done by Dassult Systems, a big CAD outfit.

For the most part I use Aspire from Vectric. I started with V-Carve Pro, fell in love with it, then upgraded. Both programs are very well designed. In my experience they have been bullet-proof. V-Carve is indispensable for doing engraving of text. It turned my CNC router from an interesting curiosity into a real usable machine.

For items that are more mechanical in nature, I use CamBam. CamBam is well written and gives you a tremendous amount of control over your machine. CamBam is cheap, only about $150, so it should be in everyone's toolbox.

 

[Analias]

Ray,

I use Alibre Personal Designer for CAD and Bobcad V25 (mill and lathe pro, nesting, Bobart, and the training DVDs) for CAM. You can get each of them for under $500 if you talk to the sales folks directly and tell them that you are a hobbyist. I like both packages. Alibre for it being a parameterized CAD with decent support for assemblies, and Bobcad for its tool paths. It even has some support for HSM tool paths, which can help with lighter machines. When I ordered Alibre I was able to purchase it with additional export file formats. I have successfully used STEP and IGES formats to export to Bobcad from Alibre and generate my tool paths.

I use Mach3 for motion control with MachStdMill Professional screen set. The MSM screen set has nice support for work flow, work piece probing, and tool management. With a fixed tool change touch plate and a 3D probe it's the cat's meow for tool management on a light hobbyist mill. I use this combination for both my mill and router.

-Freeman


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[Ray C]

This is the first time I've heard about widget-ware for Mach 3 but, that MSM program looks interesting.

So, Freeman, you're not really into CAD/CAM now, are you? (LOL).

What are your thoughts about Mach 4 vs Mach 3? Is it worth going after?

Thanks


Ray

Ray,

I use Alibre Personal Designer for CAD and Bobcad V25 (mill and lathe pro, nesting, Bobart, and the training DVDs) for CAM. You can get each of them for under $500 if you talk to the sales folks directly and tell them that you are a hobbyist. I like both packages. Alibre for it being a parameterized CAD with decent support for assemblies, and Bobcad for its tool paths. It even has some support for HSM tool paths, which can help with lighter machines. When I ordered Alibre I was able to purchase it with additional export file formats. I have successfully used STEP and IGES formats to export to Bobcad from Alibre and generate my tool paths.

I use Mach3 for motion control with MachStdMill Professional screen set. The MSM screen set has nice support for work flow, work piece probing, and tool management. With a fixed tool change touch plate and a 3D probe it's the cat's meow for tool management on a light hobbyist mill. I use this combination for both my mill and router.

-Freeman


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[Gadget]

You might want to consider LinuxCNC, it's free and very powerful. Reasonably easy to modify to suit your needs and it has great forum support. There are people on the forum who can help you customize it to your needs.
I use Alibre Design and Cut3D for design and cut path. Cut3D is a bit limited but it works. I also use Sheetcam for plasma cuts, profiles and pockets.

 

[Analias]

This is the first time I've heard about widget-ware for Mach 3 but, that MSM program looks interesting.

So, Freeman, you're not really into CAD/CAM now, are you? (LOL).

What are your thoughts about Mach 4 vs Mach 3? Is it worth going after?

Thanks


Ray

Sorry for the slow response. I don't know how I could have missed this message when I monitor the forum multiple times a day.

Well, I am a geek and a computer geek at that. Which means I use and rely on computers to make up for skills I don't have in other areas. Yes, it takes me longer in some cases to complete a project using CAD, but I find I avoid many of the problems that others learn more hands on by being able to visualize the overall project in CAD.

Because I'm a computer geek, I will definitely be buying Mach4 when it comes out. As the author of MSM put it in a posting to his support forum. We don't know when Mach4 is coming out. It has been promised several times, the last release date being seven months ago. Being that Mach4 will probably not be the first complicated piece of software to be released with out bugs in the history of humanity, most folks using Mach3 will probably wait a bit before switching over.

If you are trying to decide if you should wait for Mach4, and if you are bent on using Windows over Linux, I would get Mach3 and enjoy making parts and learning how to use your CNC. There are alternatives out there, LinuxCNC being the next best supported. I haven't used LinuxCNC yet, even though Linux is my favorite operating system.




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[Ray C]

Hey Freeman, no worries about the reply time... If it was important, Id'a bugged you with a message. I'm still trying get my ducks lined up on which CNC machine to go with so, there's plenty of time.

Well, I happen to be "OS-agnostic". Learned on PDP/Unix then, Vax/Ultrix and have done most everything under the sun since then. I do mostly RTOS stuff on vxWorks now but really liked PSoS better back in it's day. As far as all commercial OS's these days, I don't do too much programming on them... just use whatever apps are useful to me.

Anyhow, I was wondering if Mach 4 was coming out in order to address some deep-dark flaws inherent in Mach 3. If that's not the case, fine, I'll go with Mach3.

CAD, yes, I like CAD and use it for anything that is not trivial. Getting the design optimized on paper means more productive time in the workshop focusing on skill and fine-machining without being distracted by making design decisions -which by the way, utilize an entirely different part of your brain.

Ray

Sorry for the slow response. I don't know how I could have missed this message when I monitor the forum multiple times a day.

Well, I am a geek and a computer geek at that. Which means I use and rely on computers to make up for skills I don't have in other areas. Yes, it takes me longer in some cases to complete a project using CAD, but I find I avoid many of the problems that others learn more hands on by being able to visualize the overall project in CAD.

Because I'm a computer geek, I will definitely be buying Mach4 when it comes out. As the author of MSM put it in a posting to his support forum. We don't know when Mach4 is coming out. It has been promised several times, the last release date being seven months ago. Being that Mach4 will probably not be the first complicated piece of software to be released with out bugs in the history of humanity, most folks using Mach3 will probably wait a bit before switching over.

If you are trying to decide if you should wait for Mach4, and if you are bent on using Windows over Linux, I would get Mach3 and enjoy making parts and learning how to use your CNC. There are alternatives out there, LinuxCNC being the next best supported. I haven't used LinuxCNC yet, even though Linux is my favorite operating system.




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[jumps4]

hi Ray
I have been following mach4 in the yahoo mach1mach2..... group where Art and Brian the authors post for some time and it was written because mach3 cannot be repaired. mach3 has never worked right for threading on a lathe and only mach4 would fix the problem.
I do find it a bit upsetting that I'll have to purchase mach4 to get a mach3 fix but i'm going to wait guite a while before purchasing mach4. I'll let then iron the bugs out first.
For my needs I use mach3, emachineshop cad (free), and d2nc for my cam software.
steve

 

[awander]

Mach 3 HAS worked right for lathe threading-There is a problem now on some machines, all of them using the parallel port, IIRC.

I have threaded many things on my Mach 3 lathe, both with parallel port a few years back, and with my Smooth Stepper controller.

Mach 4 is a ground-up rewrite off the functionality (and more) of Mach 3, because the old code was a mess for the programmers.