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can anyone identify this model?

Discussion in 'LOGAN ENGINEERING CO. & LOGAN WARDS' started by rambin, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. GarageGuy

    GarageGuy United States Active User Active Member

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    The correct term for the connector on a leather belt is the "lace". Clipper (brand name) lacing was, and still is popular. There is a special tool needed to install the lacing on a leather belt. You're right, the Menonites will probably know how to lace a belt for you. Leather belts will have a tendency to stretch some, so set the jackshaft on your lathe for the shortest belt and add a little just to be safe. Then as your belt stretches, you just adjust the jackshaft to keep the tension right. On the Wards/Logan lathe, the belt adjustment may be in the engage/disengage lever. It has been a long time and I can't remember for sure. :D

    GG
     
  2. Nogoingback

    Nogoingback United States Active Member Active Member

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    Rambin, do you have a copy of the Logan Operators Instructions for your lathe? The gear train setup for various speeds is shown in a table there. As Robert said, you would normally run a speed of .002 to
    .008: the table shows which change gears to use and an adjacent diagram shows where those gears are installed. You'll need that table to properly set up your change gears. Looks like this:
     

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  3. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I don't have any threading charts for your machine. Normally, one would be attached to the inside of the change gear cover. Most of it will be taken up by gear setups for various threads. But one section (probably down at the bottom) should show the gears to use and where to put them for several choice of Feeds. Normally, the finer feeds will be used for finishing and the coarser ones for roughing. Finer would be say 0.005" per revolution of less. If your chart only shows threads per inch, Feed is measured in inches per spindle revolution so it is the inverse of threads per inch, which is the same as revolutions per inch. So 125 TPI would be 0.008 inches per revolution. And 250 tpi would be 0.004" per revolution.
     
  4. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    that's a good point I was just going to measure the broken belt, there is a small turnbuckle type adjustment I should back right off and measure around the pullys with a string I guess... now the big question should I get a solid belt and remove the spindle to install it or just get an open belt and try to lace it shut myself...
     
  5. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    and the answer is no I dont have the operators manual yet... i know logan sells a copy of it for 25 bucks i believeIve.. but im cheap and have been looking for the free version online with no luck...which seems odd as everything is usually able to be found somewhere on the net... guess I will have to pay the piper.. 25 bucks is like 40 cdn right now :( there is a gear change plack inside the door of the change gears but its very hard to read I will have a better look at it... thanks
     
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  6. GarageGuy

    GarageGuy United States Active User Active Member

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    I've used both laced leather and automotive serpentine belts. It's just a personal preference thing. Automotive serpentine is more permanent, but is more difficult to install.

    GG

    Sent from my Lenovo A5500-F using Tapatalk
     
  7. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'm not 100% sure but I believe the threading charts for all Logan change gear lathes are the same. The chart Nogoingback shared above and the link below from the Logan web site should work just fine for your lathe. The link below may be better for printing out a copy. The link below also has a list of the standard set of gears supplied with the lathes:

    http://www.lathe.com/990306.htm
     
  8. LucknowKen

    LucknowKen Active Member Active Member

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    If you were nearby you could use my Clipper. I should have some Bulldog brand laces for your belt.
    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/clipper-lacer-no-2-to-6-flat-belt-lacing.54878/
     
  9. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    appreciate the offer but im up in northern on... sault area so your a good ways away...It will be a week or 2 b4 I have time but im going to see if the Mennonites nearby can fix me up...they use all belted tools driven by diesels and driveshaft as they don't have power..
     
  10. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    thanks I had found that and printed it its the same as the one in my gear cover but that one is too small and worn to really read... It will be later next week b4 I get the chance to play with the gears...and even longer till I get a new belt..
     
  11. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    well I ordered up the manual...and the parts diagrams... downloaded and had them printed off at the office store ouch. not really a lot of info in there but its a start.. lots of the original sales ads included in there as filler material. I measured what I thought the belt should be by closing the turnbuckle adjuster all the way in and then measuring around the 2 pulleys and then opening the turnbuckle most of the way and measuring again... i came up with 35.5 to 39 inches i believe... now in the replacement parts there are 2 sizes avail from logan a 38 and a 39 both seem to be at the upper end of the scale for length?? i would think anything would stretch over time?? and as the belt gets bigger and u adjust for such your throw distance decreases on the belt tensioner..
     
  12. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The belt needs to be long enough so that you can de-tension it when you want to move to a different pulley. Leather belts do stretch significantly, synthetic stretch a little and you can adjust as required.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  13. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    well the belt is ordered yesterdays mission was one change gear that was missing a few teeth...been many years since I pulled out the brazing rod.. but after I filled off the excess and wittled out the teeth it aint all that bad.... not perfect but this thing is 75 years old so this fix should outlast me... rest of the change gears are in good shape surprisingly enough... I also removed the gib screws from the cross feed and the compound, they had been mutilated over the years.. any idea where I could replace them? think I took 7 of them out. for some reason it looks like square heads were welded onto a few of them, but most were just studs with a slot for a flat screwdriver and I would think that would be the original equipment ones... tip of these were threadless where they hit the gib. any ideas? and no locking nuts? is that normal?
     

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  14. LucknowKen

    LucknowKen Active Member Active Member

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    Great recovery!
     
  15. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    heres the variety of screws and abominations that were used to hold the gib strip.... hope someone can come up with some options, maybe some pics of what should be there?
     

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  16. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    They should be extended tip set screws (also called dog point) . All of the screws on my Logan were slotted extended tip set screws. Mine were in good condition so I reused them. If I was to replace them I would go with hex (allen) rather than slotted. If I remember correctly they were either 1/4-28 or 10-32 thread. They are available from McMaster Carr here in the US, not sure about Canada. Mine also have locking nuts (called jam nuts or thin nuts) also available from McMaster. The jam nuts don't appear in the manual so they may have been added later.

    Extended tip set screws:
    https://www.mcmaster.com/#set-screws/=18htqde

    Jam nuts:
    https://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-jam-nuts/=18htvy8
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
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  17. Nogoingback

    Nogoingback United States Active Member Active Member

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    You can also buy gib screws from Logan. They sell them without lock nuts: they come with nylon inserts in the screw.
     
  18. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I think that you will find (if you can find a source) that Allen, Bristol or Torx headless set screws will be less irritating to use than slotted. And that you will find that the nylon inssert or patch syle screws definitely have a finite service life. If you don't use the nylon insert type, you do need jam nuts.
     
  19. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    ahh so your saying the nylon inserts don't last too long? I tottaly agree that slotted heads are the most irritating...there basicly technology that is long gone in my books... I would probly prefer allen or torx.. don't know what Bristol is? and a jam nut... anyhow Ill look into that McMaster link someone posted above and see how bad there shipping is... im scared to look at the prices of them on the logan site
     
  20. Mister Ed

    Mister Ed United States Active User Active Member

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    Don't be afraid to look at your local hardware store as well. Probably cost a bit more, but the shipping is not there.

    A lot of time I find myself buying onesies or twosies of something to decide what size I really want or if my idea is as good as I am imagining ... and then place a bulk order with a full line supplier.
     
  21. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    RA,

    Nylok nuts can usually be reused two or three times unless they are being subjected to unusual environments, like inside a high pressure pipeline. Nylok and nylon patch screws are basically good for one installation. They only have at most around 20 to 40% of the amount of nylon in contact that a nut has. Jam nuts are less convenient but if you don't lose them or throw them away, should last the life of the machine.

    Bristol is similar to Allen but with splines similar to torx. The difference is that the splines on Bristol sockets and drivers have parallel sides whereas on Torx they are narrow "V" shaped. They date back at least to before WW-II and were commonly used in place of Slot or Allen on most US military radios. Like Torx, they are much less susceptable to rounding out the socket and rounding off the driver than are Allen. But not too easy to find today.

    A jam nut is a nut whose most common purpose is to lock a screw in place rather than to carry a load. They are typically about 1/3 to 1/2 of the height of a standard hex nut.
     
  22. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    the local hardware stores have slowly disappeared leaving the big box stores which only carry course threaded bolts in half inch denominations and nails ;p I guess i'll have to figure out the length I need so I don't have too much length hanging out past the jam nut and look into that McMaster car thing. be nice to know what the stock size was if it did in fact come with locking nuts... since I don't have the tools for Bristol I wont even look that direction! torx or allen would be my best option
     
  23. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Back in the day a company made an RC Heli called a Cricket.

    Was not a great one but all hardware was metric.

    Reason stated in the manual was that the threads were somewhat finer than that of SAE and with the Allen screws the strength was better and better choices of lengths.

    We have made a tool or 2 and found metric Allens seem to have better options as the commonly stocked choices usually are not good where the metric ones seem to be better.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     
  24. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    its an old American made lathe the threaded holes for the gibs are definatly not metric ;p
     
  25. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    I had a better look there 1/4 28 as someone had mentioned above that they might be... the McMaster carr link only goes up to 3/4 in length on those screws I would need a good inch or a touch more to have room for a lock nut... any other ideas?

    today I got back to the half nuts I mentioned were slipping a week or so ago took them out and gave them a good cleaning... not the easiest to see by pictures but there is prbly less then a 1/16th of thread in them... I imagine there original equipment..i seen them on the logan site and also some on ebay but not so sure about those ones.. also seen a guy make them on youtube but he had a mill and a lot more knowledge then I do.. heres the pics... what are my options? oh and someone had asked a bit earlier if they close all the way as you can see in the first pic there not supposed to close all the way as they would be egg shaped there meant to stay open a good 1/8 to 1/4 just how they were designed..
     

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  26. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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  27. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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    thanks for going to the trouble...so with 1"screws you have enough extra room for a lock nut? I wonder why they don't make them longer then 3/4 in the normal plain steel ones... I can see this lathe being an expensive project by the ttime im finished :(
     
  28. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Active Member Active Member

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    If you need the belt laced , I have to lacers in my shop and fair quantity of laces and pins . I can do up to 6" easily 10" with both set up. I'm offering the lacing free but a couple bucks for the metal laces . If you were close I'd say come on over and show you how .
     
  29. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yes at least on mine. You can find longer set screws but not in dog point that I could find (well except Fastenal but they wanted over $2 each!)
    Another option would be to either turn down the end of some standard set screws or drill out the end and insert some brass pins.


    https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/24936
     
  30. rambin

    rambin Canada Active Member Active Member

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