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can anyone identify this model?

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rambin

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#1
I just bought a lathe, I was told it was an older south bend and not knowing any better...(it did have similarities) I brought it home... anyhow i've been told its actually a Montgomery wards/logan... It has some wear on it...needs some repairs, hoping some of you logan people can identify the model and size and give me an idea on where to find parts that would fit it.... I do need a 3 jaw prbly for starters... this is just for hobby work so i'm trying to keep it in budget
 

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CluelessNewB

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rambin

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#3
the number 2646 is on the right side of the ways below the tail stock if that means anything to you? other then that there are no marking to be found
 

CluelessNewB

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#4
That would be the serial number. It looks like it was made around 1941. There is a Yahoo Group called "lathe-list". Scott Logan maintains a database of serial numbers there. You can send him the serial number and he can identify when it was made and the model number. You will need to sign up for a Yahoo account and become a member of the group "lathe-list".

https://groups.yahoo.com

I think it may be a model 700, but that's only a guess.
 

rambin

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#5
talked to someone at logan actuator they said it was built for montomery wards in 1941 and was probably a model 04tlc-700a. so that narrows it down quite a bit... so now I'm looking for any info on that model...
 

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rambin

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was just looking at a different wards catalogue from 41 when I seen your link... hard to believe their pricing even back then! and your right ive found manuals for free for logan 200 models which are very similar but that link you sent for the pl-04 is 25 bucks on there :( and I don't know if its any better then this one
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/3353.pdf
 

CluelessNewB

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#8
Most of it will be similar but the rear drive assembly and top belt covers for the Wards lathe are different. The 200 (and the 820 like I have) have a mechanism that loosens the flat belts when you open the top cover, the Wards lathes have a hand lever to loosen the belts. I'm not sure what other differences there might be. I would suspect the change gear charts would be the same. If you run into problems you might want to have a correct parts manual.
 

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#9
Hi welcome , I own an old logan also its 11" swing , had it for forty years it's done lots of work for me. I've got so much tooling I couldn't sell it for less the $3,000 , even then I'd lose money. Only thing I don't have is a taper attachment, wish I did but there crazy priced to buy used. Good lathe if you take care of it.
 

rambin

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#10
well I was able to get the 4 jaw off, probably found one of the reasons the prev owner thought it was a southy.....the 4 jaw chuck was a south bend..not sure if you can read the writing in the pics or not....also took a pic of the threads looks like 1/1/2??? I didn't have a thread gage that would go that high but im thinking 1 1/2 8 ? now for some reason when I put the unit in back gear it locks every thing up solid?? I also pulled off the brass plate where there used to be an electrical switch, will get a new switch next time im at the store, hate having to plug and unplug the motor all the time
 

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rambin

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#11
also would like to know what the original motor pulley size was as you can see in the pic, someone has hacked on a 4 wide pulley setup, need to do some work there!
 

wa5cab

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#12
Rambin (you need to set up your signature),

1-1/2"-8 is most likely what it is. But you don't need a thread pitch gauge to confirm it. Lay the scale shown in one of your photos down on the spindle nose, with zero in line with the first full thread. Another thread should appear in line with every 1/8" mark on the scale. And the major diameter of the threads should be 1-1/2" or up to about .005" less when measured with a caliper set.

There are a lot of different ways in which they are done on various brand lathes, but there are two basic steps on almost all lathes to switch from Direct drive to Back Gear drive. Step 1 is to take the machine out of Direct drive. Step 2 is to put it into back gear drive. To go back to Direct drive, you reverse the order. Step 1 is to take it out of Back Gear. Step 2 is to put it back into Direct. It sounds as though you are skipping step 1. Some machines have a lever for each step. But in your case, I think that I see the head of the direct drive pin in your 6th photo showing the spindle nose and bearinbg. The pin goes through a hole in the bull gear and into a hole in the right end of the spindle pulley, The pin has some sort of spring loaded ball detent in the bull gear that holds the pin either IN or OUT. If there isn't already one, make a mark on the right rim of the spindle pulley and in line with the pin. Pull the pin toward the tailstock until the ball clicks into the second detent. You should not be able to turn the spindle freely, without turning the motor. Now do Step 2.

Before you run the lathe in back gear, find and remove the oil screw from the spindle pulley. It is probably in the OD of the 2nd or third pulley step. Squirt SAE 20 into the hole, replace the oil screw, and run the lathe in back gear for about 10 seconds. The first time that you do it, repeat the steps twice. After that, oil the pulley bushings every day that you use back gear or once every 6 months or so. And oil the back gear bushings with the same frequency.

I can't help with the pulley size.
 

CluelessNewB

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rambin

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#14
thanks wa5 I found that little plunger and pulled it out and there she was....hard to get my big fingers on it though... slowly figuring this thing out... definatly would like to find out the proper pully size from the motor though... then I would have an idea what speeds im turning at... since I only have a 4 jaw I need to get a dial indicator to center it I guess... any suggestions there im not wanting to throw big money on this thing right now so i''m willing to deal with an off shore brand
 

wa5cab

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#15
I cant see enough of the direct drive pin's head to say but on the Atlas lathes and mills, the pin heads have a groove cut around them into which you can fit the tip of a slot blade screwdriver for pulling the pin out without getting your fingers greasy. The mill (whose direct drive pin is difficult even to see, let alone access) came with a special tool that looked like a miniature bent-tip flat pry bar with a round bottom slot cut in the tip. I don't know whether or not the Logan/Wards pins have the groove in the pin head.
 

rambin

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#18
todays mission was to fix that switch plate someone had left.... polished the brass filler plate up and bought a new switch and some ext cord cable and went to town...looks better and a lot easier to turn on..no more messing with a plug!
 

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rambin

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#19
took the apron off to investigate some wobble in the apron crank.... found out the hole in the casting was off center causing it to look like a bent crank... also found some brazing repair under the apron...how that ever happened i'll never know but apparently it broke somewhere along the line... cleaned it all up and oiled it.... auto cross feed is working but not the apron travel, think the split nut is wore too bad???
 

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#20
Are the split nuts closing properly around the shaft? There is a plate that moves them when the handle is rotated
that has to go together one way. The slots milled in it "cam" the half nut in place. If it was assembled incorrectly you may not get full travel of the half nuts.
 

rambin

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i believe they are closing properly? I don't believe there supposed to close right tight together? hard to tell in the pic I put up but there doesn't seem to be a lot of thread depth there...
 

wa5cab

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#23
I don't know the intentions of the Logan designer but have always assumed that half nuts should close completely. Take your pair (loose) and clamp them closed around the lead screw down near the right end where there shouldn't be an wear on the screw threads. Measure the end float of the nut. Do the same thing up in the area where the nut would be when the carriage is near the chuck. The difference is screw wear. Repeat the two tests with a new pair of half nuts if you can. The differences in end float between the two sets of half nuts would be attributable to nut wear.

Install the old nuts and then the new nuts in the apron, position the carriage so that the half nuts are in the same location on the lead screw as in the second test and measure the carriage end float. The difference between the half nut end float and the carriage end float will be due to looseness and wear in the half nut closing mechanism. Not having a parts manual I can't say which parts you might want to replace.
 

rambin

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#24
i'll have to take the apron off and remove the half nuts to try that properly I guess.. is there a certain gear the lathe should be set in for general work....not thread cutting? I know mine was set slow as hell and I was trying to diagnose things so I put it on a different gear setup to move things along.... I really think new half nuts are in order but I'm not in a hurry for that....broke the belt today, now gottta look into where a person gets leather belts? seems I'm 1 step fwd and 4 back on this thing
 

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#25
RA,

Typical feeds per spindle revolution are perhaps in the range of 0.002" to 0.008". On my Atlas 12", I usually use 0.0042 or 0.0044 (which are its two slowest feeds) for finish and 0.0078" for roughing.

On some machines, it is possible to pull the half nuts without pulling the spindle. However, in you case I would pull the apron first so that you can see what it is doing.
 

rambin

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#26
wa5 I'm new to all this so your .0002" doesn't mean much to me...I would need to add subtract gears to make it work for a certain thread... no knowing what speed that would be? pulling the apron is not a bad job I will maybe try to find time tomoro... still need to track down a belt b4 I can do anything...
 

Nogoingback

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wa5 I'm new to all this so your .0002" doesn't mean much to me...I would need to add subtract gears to make it work for a certain thread... no knowing what speed that would be? pulling the apron is not a bad job I will maybe try to find time tomoro... still need to track down a belt b4 I can do anything...
rambin, There are three belt options. Logan sells a glued belt that requires spindle removal. Some folks have also used serpentine belts from the auto parts store, but that option also
requires that the spindle be removed. Logan can also sell you a belt with a clip that can be used without removing the spindle: http://store.lathe.com/drive.html. If you decide to order
from Logan, be sure you have your serial number handy when you call: they'll ask for it.
 

wa5cab

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#28
RA,

Carriage feed rates are independent of spindle RPM. They are measured in inches per one spindle revolution. The speed that the carriage moves to the left is a function of both feed rate and spindle RPM. But how much it moves for each revolution of the spindle is not.affected by RPM of the spindle.
 

rambin

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rambin, There are three belt options. Logan sells a glued belt that requires spindle removal. Some folks have also used serpentine belts from the auto parts store, but that option also
requires that the spindle be removed. Logan can also sell you a belt with a clip that can be used without removing the spindle: http://store.lathe.com/drive.html. If you decide to order
from Logan, be sure you have your serial number handy when you call: they'll ask for it.

the leather belt that broke appeared to be stapled together somehow...since I don't know how to remove the spindle im probably going to look into a belt with a clip. I know the local menonites use a lot of belt driven tools im thinking they might be a source foor a replacement leather belt.. will have to look into that when I get a chance...
 

rambin

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RA,

Carriage feed rates are independent of spindle RPM. They are measured in inches per one spindle revolution. The speed that the carriage moves to the left is a function of both feed rate and spindle RPM. But how much it moves for each revolution of the spindle is not.affected by RPM of the spindle.
the carriage feed speed is controlled by the gear combinations(no quick change on this machine), am I not correct? im asking what gear settting I should normaly run in...what combination
 
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