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Can Anyone Id This Lathe?

tfleming

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#1




I am thinking about buying it, and I go to see it next weekend.
 

jhuston

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#2
To me, it looks Lodge and Shipley-ish. If so, it should be a nice lathe, depending on condition.
-James Huston
 

tfleming

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#3
Thanks, that what I thought at well. This was "wholesaled" by a company called Brown and Zortman out of Pittsburgh, Pa. They would wholesale machines, and put their badge on them. For sure, this one is old. I find the drive train to be very interesting........V-belt to gear box, then flat belt to headstock. Looks like babbit bearings as well. This one is definitely an older model.
 

4gsr

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#4
The builder's name is cast in the bed just below the lead screw in the second picture.

If this is a L & S, it's around 1900-1910 era.
 

tfleming

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#5
Thanks Ken. If the ways are in good shape, is it worth $400? That is what the seller is asking. Includes everything in the pictures and all the tooling (which I haven't seen yet). I have an Atlas QC54, so this would become my "big" lathe.
 

4gsr

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#7
If the handwheels don't flop around when you grab them and the spindle turns without any grinding noises, its worth $400. Ken

As Bob said, it was originally set up to run off a line shaft in its early days. The transmission shown in the picture was a aftermarket deal you could buy back in the 1920's - 1940's to run it off a motor as it is set up now.

I bet that is a two horse power motor! Twenty horse power today!
 

tfleming

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#8
Thanks guys. I have a motor off an old air compressor that looks just like that. It is a 3 HP and weighs over 100 lbs. That translates into a backup motor if the current one on the lathe is shot.
 

MrFixIt

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#9
Man, if that's not thrashed it's a steal at that price!
Sadly, mine was thrashed and I paid more!
 

pineyfolks

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#10
It might have some wear on it but it doesn't look like it was beat up. None of the handles are bent or broken and the compound doesn't have any signs of crashing into the chuck. At $400 it looks like a possible old iron restoration to me if nothing major is broken.
 

tfleming

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#11
Guys, thanks for the input, and keep it coming. I agree, it does NOT look abused. However, the pictures are poor, and are from the seller. It was his brother-in-law's lathe, and his sister wants it out of the basement. That is the seller's advertised price, not one that I set. If the old girl is even prettier in person, I will buy it. When I get it home, the disassemble, clean, and re-assemble, then calibrate/adjust process begins. This country made it through WWI and WWII using these, and I expect that if this hasn't been abused, it will be a good "big job" lathe for my purposes. I like doing things "the old way" and with older machinery, so this might fit right in! Lastly, as an added bonus, I have that disease where I love to take old things and make them work again. THEN USE THEM! LOL. We will see what the on-site visit discovers.
 

tfleming

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#12
I can't make it to see this until the weekend, but the seller sent me another picture:
412904754.jpg

Maker confirmed. Now, to determine the model and size. It is 9' overall length, but the seller was not able to get the throw size yet or the distance between centers. The weekend will be here soon, and I will get to see it. Next question I'll have to figure out is, how much does the old girl weigh. I have 2 different trainlers, and would prefer to take the smaller one. I can put 2000 lbs in my truck, and 2000lbs on the small trailer. That would mean a partial disassembly. If I take the big trailer, I can haul 8000 on it, but it is a pain to move it around in small spaces. I'll have to see what the seller's location and building size is. I have a 9000lb winch, so worst case, I'll just skid it up the ramps on plywood, and onto the deck of the trailer. All of this predicated on it not being a worn out pile of junk...........:sherlock:
 

tfleming

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#14
Well, I bought it. 16" swing, 6' bed, 34.5" between centers, 1 5/6" through hole. 18 spindle speeds possible Looks like it weighs in around 2000 lbs. not counting the gear box and motor. Motor is a 1 HP Century, 110/220 single phase, and a monster.

Here is what I think it is (top picture):

412918193.jpg
 

Tinkershed

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#15
With regard to access for your trailer ... if you have the street address Google Earth is your friend... the last one like that I saw moved was an old Sheldon that was even bigger. I think the guys handled it with a forklift. Good luck!
 

Glenn Brooks

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#16
I'd be nervous about breaking the legs off trying to drag it along the floor with a winch. Take along a couple of lengths of some 1" pipe. Put under the plywood and push it along with one hand. Amazing how easy it is to move stuff with pipe rollers.
 

jhuston

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#17
Alternately, you could lag the feet to a couple of timbers and sledge it onto a trailer.
-James Huston
 

tfleming

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#18
Good suggestions guys. I pick it up tomorrow. Seller has a front end loader he thinks has enough ummmph to lift it. No problem getting the trailer to where we are going to load. I am going to removed the motor, transmission (convert flat belt to v-belt), and the tail stock. Should be able to pick the old girl up and set her right in. If not, plan B is the plywood skids. i'll post pics if I can tomorrow of before, during and after shots.
 

G MORSCH

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#19
I agree with Bob Korves above. I ran a turret lathe occasionally when I was in college and the motor and transmission was on top of the machine, just as in your picture. Old line shaft arrangement. There would be no reason that you couldn't improvise a "V" pulley drive output directly to the spindle from the transmission, unless you want to keep it in its current state.

Good luck, looks like a fun project!

Gary Morsch
 

jhuston

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#21
That really is a good price for a machine of that size; even a worn out lathe can do acceptable work, provided it doesn't have a lot of broken components.
-James Huston
 

tfleming

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#22
412970745.jpg 412970746.jpg 412970701.jpg 412970668.jpg
 

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jhuston

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#23
Well, it looks like it could definitely do with a bath...
It looks very sound in the pictures. Can't wait to see what you do with it.
-James Huston
 

tfleming

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#24
Well, the old girl is dirty, however, the old grease and oil seem to have helped keep her in reasonable "non-rusted" shape. She was stored in a heated building. The ways look really good from a "ding" perspective. Not sure how much wear is in them yet, but time will tell. Overall, she seems to be in very good condition for the age. Story from the seller is that his dad bought this out of a mill in the Youngstown OH valley that closed down in the 1920's. It has been in the family ever since he brought it home. Very little use by the family. My plan is to disassemble, clean, coat with Penetrol, and keep the current finish/patina. The only defect I have found so far, is a crack in the cross piece on the tailstock end legs. Easy repair with a bolted support plate, or I may even braze it. Either way, I am really excited to start cleaning her up and see what she can do. She came with a 1 HP single phase, dual voltage motor. I have a 3 HP single phase, dual voltage motor of the same vintage I think I am going to use on it. It just seems to me that a 1 HP motor is a wee bit underpowered for an 18" lathe. Question will be if a 3" leather or composite flat belt will take 3 HP. It should, but it is too early in the game to worry about that.
 

jhuston

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#25
You might be able to sell the original motor to defray the cost of the lathe; Century repulsion induction motors have a following.
-James Huston
 

4gsr

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#26
.......snip.......... It just seems to me that a 1 HP motor is a wee bit underpowered for an 18" lathe. Question will be if a 3" leather or composite flat belt will take 3 HP. It should, but it is too early in the game to worry about that.
Should be plenty of power for what you want to do. I've seen many old machines running on 1 to 3 HP motors with a 3" to 4" wide belts. Generally, some kind of double vee belt drive to the tranny or Driv-All transmission. Then 3 to 4" wide flat belt from the tranny to the step cone on the machine. Generally set up to drive the largest OD step on the cone pulley is what I've seen over the years.

On a 18" size lathe of that age, 3 HP is on the low side. 5 HP would be desired but not a deal breaker! Ken

Edit: Just notice in some of the earlier pictures, that is a five step cone sheave. Wow! Most old cone head lathes only had three or four steps on the cone pulley. Looks like on yours the belt ran on the second step from the biggest OD step.

Nice find!
 
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tfleming

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#27
Anyone have any idea where the serial number is on this old girl? I just disassembled the tailstock. the base of the tailstock, and the body of the tail stock are both stamped with the number 8. Now, I have a few older machines where the serial numbers were stamped on multiple parts. If that is the case, and that number I found is truly a serial number, then that would make this old girl #8 of overall production. I am doubtful that is the case, but if it is truly the serial number, then this old girl is truly an "old girl"........according to the servial number list I was able to fin, 1900 started at serial #1736 (or, maybe ended there). I will wait for someone more knowledgeable than myself to weigh in on the thoughts here.......I am tinkering right now trying to figure out all the levers. I have most of the figured out so far, but not all.
 

4gsr

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#28
Lodge & Shipley started serial numbers around 1000-1500 from what I recall from one of the historians out there. The serial number is generally stamped between the vee and other vee on the rear side of the bed on the tailstock end of the bed. The number 8 was probably used to keep track of a series of matched parts in production so they would not get mixed up. The serial number was the last thing added to the completed machine before it left the building. Later in life, L & S would stamp serial numbers on finished beds during production assembly, and the major components got the same s/n stamped on them. Ken
 

tfleming

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#29
Well, some good news and some bad news. Good news is the apron is in good shape, just needs a thorough cleaning. Good news is, the major drive train seems to be in good shape. threading quick change gearbox is in working order and good shape. Drive gears from the spindle down to the threading gearbox, not so much. The top gear has about 8 teeth missing in various locations. Obviously, someone jammed the thing into reverse feed without letting the spindle come to a complete stop or crashed the power feed on the apron. I will now be on a quest to find a replacement gear, or open up my wallet to have one made. I don't have the tooling to cut spur gears, so this will be "find a part" or have someone make it. However, that seems to be the only issues I have uncovered so far. The entire gear train shows good, honest wear (except for the noted abuse), but it is far from totally worn out. I'll try to post some pics of the gears tomorrow.
 

jhuston

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#30
I've had good luck getting gears through Martin gear.
-James Huston
 
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