California Bans Non-detergent Motor Oil: What To Use Instead?

Earlier this year, California banned the sale of non-detergent motor oils. As recommended, this is what I've been using on my lathes. (Currently a Logan 820.)
I'd been buying quarts of non-detergent, usually from Auto Zone. Now, after striking out at Auto Zone and Pep Boys, the counterman at Kragen told me it, and other "obsolete oil grades"could no longer be sold here. Apparently this is to protect ignorant consumers.
So I wonder what an adequate substitute would be, perhaps compressor oil or hydraulic oil? Does it really matter on a 72-year-old hobby lathe? Your suggestions please. Yeah, Crazy California... I know, I agree. I'm looking for practical advice, not political discussion.

Greg,
Escondido CA

Here is the bill voted on to ban your oil.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/15-16/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_778_cfa_20150427_162850_sen_comm.html
 
what is there in modern oils that is deleterious to our machinery?
The oils recommended for some equipment were the best considered at the time of manufacturer one would suppose so modern oils with various additives or formulations shouldnt really be a concern would it?
 
what is there in modern oils that is deleterious to our machinery?
The oils recommended for some equipment were the best considered at the time of manufacturer one would suppose so modern oils with various additives or formulations shouldnt really be a concern would it?

Couldn't agree more. Oils all start out as the same crude, and modern refining has to be better than what was done years ago. Additives are there because they have proven to be helpful keeping the oil clean and slippery. Can't see anything but benefit from using the best available today as long as you stay within the number grade recommended. :>)
 
A detergent motor oil is made to be used with a oil filter. I wouldn't use any detergent modern (motor) oil in an old lathe or mill headstock. The detergent can loosen any old gunk and circulate it into and possibly ruin the bearings. I use the appropriate DTE circulating oil in my machines. Mostly DTE Heavy Medium in the headstocks. I always buy from Enco when it is on-sale and get free shipping; if they are having a % off sale that is a bonus.

Mike
 
Hi Mike, if like you say you change the oil in your headstocks why would there be crud in there?
Not trying to pick a fight just curious:dunno:
 
Hi Mike, if like you say you change the oil in your headstocks why would there be crud in there?
Not trying to pick a fight just curious:dunno:

When I got my vintage 1944 Monarch lathe, I drained the oil, popped the lid off the top and found a light grey film all over the interior of the case. I found that this film had little, ittybitty flecks of metal in it from 60+ years of use. The oil was clean and probably could have been left in the headstock. My lathe was used by it's previous machine shop owner daily and was well maintained, not a auction queen. I wiped out what I could then flushed it several times with kerosene. I think that if I only drained the oil and replaced it with detergent oil the gunk that fell out of the circulating oil over the past 60+ years would have been picked up by the new oil and run through the bearings. There wasn't any metal to speak of on the drain plug magnet. Circulating oil allows any dirt to drop out of circulation while detergent oil keeps it in suspension for the filter to clean.
I called tech support for Mobil (Exxon/Mobil) and asked about what oil to use in my mill, since it was listed with a Staybolt 300 seconds at 100 degree unit of viscosity*. They told me what to use and warned against using any type of detergent oil in my machines.

Since the OP was using non-detergent motor oil in his lathe and found that it is no longer available locally, in this case new is not better. The needs of today's automotive engines are much different than our old (or new) machine tools.

* Saybolt Seconds Universal (SSU)
This is the time for 60 millilitres (ml) of fluid to flow through the calibrated orifice of a Saybolt Universal viscometer at a specified temperature, as prescribed by test method ASTM D 88. For higher viscosities, SSF (Saybolt Seconds Furol) is used. “Furol” comes from “fuel and road oil”.


On edit, Enco regularly runs a sale on DTE circulating oil for about $18/gallon with free shipping. So if you are in a state where Enco doesn't have a presence you don't pay sales tax. This is cheaper or the same price for motor oil at my local Wal-Mart. Since you aren't saving any money why not use the correct fluid?
Mike
 
There is no crud, metal flakes or dirt of any kind in my lathe gearbox and it is not creating any. There was when it was new but it was cleaned out pronto. That stuff has no business in my lathe regardless of what oil is used.

The manual for my lathe calls for ISO 32 oil in the gearboxes and the stuff I use is called compressor oil. It is less expensive than the detergent motor oil I buy for all our vehicles. I would use detergent oil in a pinch with no worry about hurting my clean lathe. The only reservation I have is whether detergent oil would get by the oil seals more easily than non detergent oil. The oil seals in my lathe are nowhere near the quality of those in my motor vehicles.
 
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There have been several discussions (at least one on here I think), about modern oils (especially gear oils), not being compatible with brass & bronze bearings and bushings.

The latest classification of automotive oils do not protect flat cams (all newly made cars (since the late 80's) have roller cams).

Many bigger gearbox's used in bigger lathes, and milling machines have both bronze bushings, and an oil pump that is driven by a cam.

Circulating oil allows any dirt to drop out of circulation while detergent oil keeps it in suspension for the filter to clean.

Mike
Exactly. Especially the older machines like my Van Norman 22LU, its knee power system powers both the X & Y feeds, and the knee elevation. Its magic is done through the use of lots of gears (many with bronze bushings), clutches (that also leave fine particles in the oil). It needs a gearbox lubricant that can handle the extreme pressure of the many small gear surfaces, is friendly with yellow metals (brass, bronze, and copper).
 
I never intended to start any type of disagreement. The OP said he has a 74 year old lathe, I personally would not use any type of detergent oil in that machine. My answer was for those, like me, that have machines older than we are.
I have a friend who has a few year old Charter Oak CNC mill; they specify non-detergent oil with a de-foaming agent added.
Everyone has an opinion. You can pick from column A, B or C

Here is a photo of my headstock, gears are made of un-obtainium so they are real expensive. I wouldn't even attempt to replace any bearings.
HEADSTOCK 002.JPG
 
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