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Burke Motorized With Dayton 2 Hp

Discussion in 'ELECTRICAL ISSUES - POWER YOUR MACHINES & SHOP' started by dgehricke, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Well, Its me again the electrical hazard and nightmare on 2 feet. I need to get this straight in my head I have only last week finally got my Burke #4 motorized. The Burke had a Lima gear motor that would not shift to any gear it only ran at 587 RPMs. I changed it out with a 2 HP Dayton AC induction motor model # 6K393K single phase 1740 RPMs 115/208-230 volt.

    I am putting a drum switch to the motor for forward and reverse HOWEVER the motor states that it needs to have T3 and T8 wires switched for CCW rotation. Does that mean the motor will only run in CCW direction and no longer function in CW rotation ?? WILL the drum switch Dayton 2X440A model now be the factor for changing rotation, or do I have to constantly change these wire manually back and forth as needed.?

    As soon as I get some answers to this question I'll probably need advise with the wiring of the drum switch. But thats another issue.

    As always Thanks so much for any and all assistance with this problem, all advise is greatly

    appreciated.



    regards to all and Merry Christmas to all.

    dgehricke
     
  2. FOMOGO

    FOMOGO Puerto Rico Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Not sure about the switch you mention without researching it , but, yes the switch should do the switching for F to R for you with out changing the motor wiring. Mike
     
  3. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Your drum switch will probably work fine with your motor. I couldn't find any documentation for your motor online that shows the wiring diagram. A picture of the diagram would really help us help you.

    Here is a link to the complete drum switch documents on the Grainger web site: https://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/2X440_1.pdf

    You will most probably be hooking it up like the high voltage diagram below, your switch is only rated for 2hp at 240V (only 1.5 hp at 115V). Now all you need to figure out is which wires are which on the motor. ;)

    DaytonDrumSwitch_2X440_zoom.png
     
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  4. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Greetings all and thanks for the info thus far. attached is a photo of the motor tag its very easy and I have already wired things and the switch of the 2 wires is a simple task I hope. looking at it, it seems to need jumpers to accomplice this am I correct ? The motor is rated at 2 hp and the switch is Max rated for 2 hp but I don’t think I will ever be able to put a full load on the switch or the motor. Or am I wrong again ?
    Thanks
    dgehricke
     

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  5. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The switch should be fine for 2hp when hooked up at 240V but not when used at 115V. Below is what how I think you should hook up the motor for 240V.

    The 240V comes in the switch (L1 & L2)
    T8-T3-T2 all are connected together in the motor

    T1, T4 and T5 need to be connected to the switch as shown below. You will need 3 wires plus a ground wire from the motor to the switch. Note that one terminal of the switch will not have any connection.

    If motor runs ok but forward and reverse are backwards swap T1 & T4 at the switch.

    You should not need any jumpers in the switch. If you have terminals rather than just wires in the motor you may need jumpers there.


    DaytonDrumSwitch_2X440_240.png

    The diagram below shows what I believe is going on inside your motor except you don't have thermal protection so you can ignore P1 & P2

    NEMA_DUAL_VOLTAGE.PNG
     
  6. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Gentlemen, Thanks again fir the very useful information.
    Regards
    dgehricke
    Happy New Year
     
  7. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Well maybe this should be listed in “Goofs and Blunders and things to avoid “ I really thought this was resolved but not quit. Let me explain what I have done and where every thing is hooked up. I have taken photos of as much of what I have done so here goes…The first item is for the motor and with wiring schematic see photo Switch CCW and CWR. I did switch the 2 wires T8 and T5 with each other for CCWR. See the photo of existing wiring for what it is now. Next came the switch I have included a photo of the switch cover so the model # and voltage are clear.

    The switch is getting current from a receptacle that is controlled by 2 -15 amp breakers for a total of 30 amps see the photos of the breaker panel and the plug. There are only 3 conductors 2 @ 115 Volts and 1 Ground. One conductor is connected to the drum switch at terminal #1 and the other is connected to terminal #5 the ground is tied to the other ground and connected at the screw for the cover on the top of the switch.

    The wires from the motor are connected thus T5 -T8 are a white conductor going to the terminal #4

    on the lower part of the switch the other conductor is Black and it is going to terminal #6

    When the drum switch was hooked up as in the 2 photos the breakers tripped when I turned on the current so disregard the wiring in these 2 photos the switch is wired as described above, As the switch is now wired it does nothing I am wondering if the breaker was damaged when it tripped so I am going to switch them out with a double 20 amp that is not being used. I post more if I don’t electrocute myself, any advise is really needed in simple language for a simple individual.

    Thanks again for your patience and assistance.

    dgehricke
     

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  8. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    At the motor connect T8+T3+T2 together.

    All The grounds should be connected together at the switch.

    Motor T1 should be connected to Switch Terminal #3
    Motor T5 should be connected to Switch Terminal #5
    Motor T4 should be connected to Switch Terminal #4

    Nothing is connected to Switch Terminal #1

    The two 115V wires from the breakers should be connected to Terminals #2 and #6 on the switch. It doesn't make any difference which one is connected to #2 and which is connected to #6.

    If the motor runs in the wrong directions swap the connections #3 and #4 at the switch.

    FYI the two 15 amp breakers don't add up to 30 amps, it's still 15 amps but twice the voltage. 15amp breakers are on the low side for a 2hp motor. I would not be surprised if the breaker trips when the motor starts. In any case the breaker is to protect the wires, If you go to a 20amp breaker your wire must be #12 or larger.
    (wire size goes up as numbers get smaller, #14 wire is smaller than #12).


    DaytonDrumSwitch.png
     
  9. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Rich,
    Thanks a bunch for the assist,I will try this your way tomorrow morning and advise how it goes.
    dgehricke
     
  10. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Rich,
    Attached is a photo of the plate from the motor and again I am confused I checked the switch and the wires and the way I have it connected is oppisite from your diagram,However the line 5 to terminal 5 docent make sense as 4 and 5 are tied together according to the schematic from the motor.
    I asked earlier I believe do I need a jumper to connect this switch some how. I will rewire the motor as per the plate tomorrow and then I will follow your directions and schematic but according to your info I think I need to have some jumpers installed .tahnks again
    dgehricke
     

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  11. rdean

    rdean United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have not been following your wiring but saw a picture of your breaker panel and the two breakers. I can't remember on the General Electric panel that when you are using two half size breakers next to each other I don't think you will get 240 volts just the same 120 twice. Check the voltage between the breakers to see if you have 240 volts or just 0 volts. If you have already verified you do have 240 volts then "Never Mind"
    Ray
     
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  12. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Ray I will check that first thing tomorrow.Thanks
    dgehricke
     
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  13. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The direction the motor runs is determined by the relationship between the run and start windings. The diagram on the motor is correct BUT you will not be able to swap T5 & T8 for reversing using the switch you have. The diagram on the motor assumes you keep the run windings hooked up all the time and swap the start windings to reverse the motor. The diagram I gave you does the opposite, it keeps the start windings hooked up all the time and swaps the run windings. It effectively accomplishes the same thing but works with your switch.

    You should NOT need any jumpers inside the switch. If you are looking at the picture below, they are not jumpers. The picture just shows which terminals get connected together when the switch is in each position.
    DaytonDrunConnections.PNG

    And yes please check the voltage. I believe Ray is correct, when I first looked at the picture I didn't notice that they were single pole tandem breakers rather than 2 pole breakers. For a 240V circuit you should be using a 2 pole breaker. A 2 pole breaker mechanically links the two sides so that if either side overloads both sides will get disconnected. It will require 2 full slots just like the 50 amp breaker in your panel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  14. rdean

    rdean United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Checked the pic again and it does look like you have it correct.
    Check it anyway.

    Ray
     
  15. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Ray,
    I got it to run as you said I put those breakers in about 15 years ago and forgot exactly why and what for . I used a breaker on the other side of the panel all I had to do was switch the recepticals. Its only running in one direction the other side of the switch does nothing. I guess one direction is better then none.
    Thanks again for your kind help.
    Regards
    dgehricke
     
  16. rdean

    rdean United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Some of those GE box's are a little strange in the way they are setup.
    Glad you got it going.

    Ray
     

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