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Discussion in 'A BEGINNER'S FORUM (Learn How To Machine Here!)' started by rdrasher, Jan 7, 2017.
I'll be bringing the cops with me for a trouble free refund.
I know right!
Seems that way.
I hope you get your money back and he has an outstanding warrant and gets arrested too boot.
Does anyone think this Enco 3-in-1 would be a good option to start/learn on?
Is he asking too much?
3 in 1 machines do a little of everything but nothing particularly well, they are not rigid, have small milling table, very tall tailstock, which is a no no. Can you do good work on them ? Sure, will you love the machine, I suspect you will find its limitations sooner rather than later. That said, if I were to buy one, I would buy a Smithy, they are nice machines, have good support and have been around a long time
If you want to do small work the 3 in 1 machine might suffice but if you want to work on bikes and ATVs, you should get a larger, separate mill and lathe.
I would take the mill that you already bought instead of the refund. show up with the cops, a trailer and a couple of friends.
Also I would advise to change your bank account number now that a slimy criminal has it.
Thanks guys for the input about the 3-in-1.
It's pretty overwhelming for me to commit with all the different options for machines and the fact that I've never even used any of them.
I see all the possibilities on this site and get all hyped up only to get nervous about spending my limited budget on "the wrong thing" or buy someone else's used worn out machine.
Oh the problems of a lowly noob...
It'll get better. Most of us have had similar dealings in our past, too. You live and learn and we never quit learning.
Did you ever get the situation sorted? I looked at the same mill and tried to contact, after numerous failed attempts, i gave up. Hopefully you got your money back or the mill!
I drove to Daytona to get my money and guess what happened, NOTHING! He was a "no show" again! He texted me before we were to meet and said he wouldn't be able to meet on time. Then said he would wire my money to me. After a couple hours, he sent me a text saying he could only send $200 and then would send $300 tomorrow and then $200 on Monday. What's another couple of days after almost a month now.
The mill will need some work and it's missing several pieces:
quill feed handle(missing)
manual feed wheel(missing)
manual feed splined shaft that the wheel attaches to didn't look like it was spinning properly, looked bent as it went around and around
pulley belt is starting to shred/fray
rear spindle is chipped and missing a large chunk of metal on largest pulley
x axis wheel is not easily spun(table doesn't move smoothly)
didn't see anywhere on the machine that says it's Bridgeport
some of the numbered degree plates have been sanded off
power switch arcs electricity out of open cover when it's turned on
a wire connected the motor has not been properly shielded
I understand these might be "no big deal" to most but I felt I should mention it to you since you mentioned that you were trying to check out the mill.
Chayse, Good luck with this guy, he's sketchy with a recent record in Flagler county
Thanks for the heads up...after a couple attempts, I gave up on it. I ended up finding a mill over in Lakeland that will suit my needs. I hope you get things sorted!!
Unfortunately for us we had a similar dealing with a gentleman. You're likely involved in a case of fraud, but you will be hard pressed to convince your local prosecutor to pursue the case (from our experience).
The detective in our case educated me a bit on the process; there is criminal court and civil court. Criminal involves the prosecutor, civil does not. I was told that from the evidence that we presented, there was no doubt it was a case of criminal fraud. However, to prove criminal fraud in court you need to prove prior intent to defraud. That means having a co-conspirator "ratting out" the other conspirator. The prosecutor would not "waste his time" presenting the case in court and risk having a "bleeding heart" judge or jury rule in favor of the defendant. In other words, they would only prosecute if the case was a slam-dunk conviction.
We pursued our matter in civil court and received a judgement in our favor. However, that doesn't get you your money back. It's basically mom in the front seat of the car settling the argument between the kids in the back seat as to whose comic book it is. Telling little Johnnie to give Suzy her comic book back doesn't mean he will do it. No prosecutor there, just attorneys for both sides. Small claims court (which was our case) does not involve attorneys. In our area it costs around $3000 for an attorney for civil court. We have two judges in our county and neither one typically awards court costs to the complainant. So you're on your own to cover the legal fees. Our max limit for small claims civil court is something like $3500.
You unfortunately will have to be persistent to get your money back even if you receive a judgement. I attached a brochure on the process in our county. It might be a similar process in yours.
In our case we got most of our money back, enough so that we gave up pursuing the balance. Plus the gentleman moved out of state which is a new can of worms. I followed him to find his place of work (which he wouldn't disclose even those he was required by the judgement in our favor) and filed papers for garnishment of wages. I probably went over the line a bit, but made up flyers with the details of our dealings with this gentleman and went door to door in his neighborhood handing them out. All I stated were the facts, didn't call him names like a thief or anything, just stated the facts. I figured a con artist relies of the public not knowing his background otherwise he won't find more victims. Our attorney rolled his eyes at my tactics, but in my case said I was not defaming his character. It made a difference in our case, he started returning our calls about paying us back - maybe something about shame being a great motivator.
Good luck, sure hope you get your money back as the legal process is a royal PITA!
If a Civil Court rules in your favor I believe you may be able to put a lein for the original amount and costs accrued for your trouble on properties owned by the defaulter. Laws may vary where you are.
Find out where this guy lives and camp outside his house till he pays up. Or enlist the help of a few heavy bikers in the area....
Personally, I would do all three things:
1) post an update concerning his continuing fraudulent and evasive activities on Facebook to expose this guy and kill his business;
2) take the cops to his business with the court order and pick up the mill;
3) if he dodges you, serve him with small claims papers anyway -even if he gives you a partial refund- while you are at his house/shop.
Even if he evades paying the court claim, you can still continue to serve him with demand notices, and go back to the Judge to complain about him NOT satisfying the judgement. Remember, Small claims an't over til it's over.
Judges may be flakes, but they get real nasty when people don't do what they are ordered to do, after the trial is finished.
Good luck on this. Don't give up!
I would keep messing with him on CL and whatever else hes trying to sell stuff on. Whats he gonna do about it?
So what happened here? I've been curious.
Surprisingly he did Moneygram me a refund a week or two ago, unfortunately he only send $200 (citing an ATM max withdrawal per day) of what I thought would be the full $700.
I went to the police dept. but they won't do anything. According to them I entered a verbal agreement when I handed over my money for the mill. They say it's now a civil matter and it would probably cost me as much to take him to court as what I'm owed, plus it could take up to a year to sue him. I feel like the "system" protects the perpetrator and leaves the victim hung out to dry.
As of last week I was told by this thief that he sent me a money order for the remaining $500 he owes and promised to give me a tracking number, but as you can guess....... no money order or tracking number has shown up, but I've received PLENTY of excuses.
Do you not know where he lives?
I think he, his wife and kid live in his business. Not sure, but it did look like it because there was a folding bed upstairs and a fridge and clothes in the office. I talked to a guy that has a unit next door and he told me that this guy made Thanksgiving dinner at his business with his family.
Even if I do get to meet up with him face to face to demand my money, he won't have it and will call the cops.
I live over an hour away, so my brother went over there a couple of times in the last month to try and tell him to contact me and this clown called the cops on my brother. Last week after going by the police dept. I went by the business looking for him and as I was talking to the guy in the next unit over, he saw me on his camera that he has in the front window (which I already knew about) and called the cops to tell them I was trying to break in! What a @#%&! This clown uses and abuses the system since he's all too familiar with it after being arrested multiple times.
Sorry to hear that.
I was hoping you would at least get your money back.
"... it would probably cost me as much to take him to court as what I'm owed..."
This simply isn't true. You can file a small claim, online, and take him to court without an attorney. But, still, you have taught yourself an expensive lesson.
This guy is a pro... a professional con man. Has no assets to sue for, cameras everywhere, knows he can call the cops over harassment... scum bag...
I second ezduzit, You can and should, sue him in small claims court.
I just got off the phone with a lawyer and he told me to see the state attorney and ask to file for a misdemeanor or 3rd degree felony. He called it "theft by deception". Then he told me to walk across the court complex to the county clerk and file in small claims court and after I eventually win a judgement, put a lien on him.
I think I'll let the "thief" know that I've had enough of his BS and will be taking it to the next level.
"I think I'll let the "thief" know that I've had enough of his BS and will be taking it to the next level."
Your attorney cannot have told you to do this. He gave you good advice--stick to that.
Yep, forget about telling him, he sounds like he'd counterclaim "harassment", just let the papers arrive on his desk - if he has a "business" then he may well have business assets, don't know how it goes in the US but in the UK court bailiffs will seize goods far in excess of the debt and auction them to be sure both the debt and fees are paid, anything left over goes to the debtor (not much, the auctioneers are interested in selling, not getting best price in bailiff auctions)- couldn't happen to a nicer bloke. Never know, if they seize and auction the mill you might get it for $10 at auction AND get your money back
Dave H. (the other one)
I would also contact zoning/code enforcement. He should be in violation by living in his business since it is not zoned for that.