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BROWN & SHARPE UNIVERSAL DIVIDING HEAD

BROCKWOOD

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#1
01.jpg IMG_20170603_005235568.jpg IMG_20170603_005300820.jpg Here we are in the Beginner's Forum because quite honestly there is not a YouTube channel or Google search that will give you enough answers to figure out how to do what it is that you want to do. We are all on our own in figuring out just what comes next. It is fun to glean ideas from those that do share! I watch YouTube a lot & consider it to be my latest foray of learning. As a wantabe machinist, YouTube is my college.
Today's topic, the beginning of this class, is what to do with incorrect or otherwise no longer work properly parts on an old Brown & Sharpe Dividing Head. Seen it on so many YouTube channels rights???? In this class, we will begin with a random eBay purchase. 1st pic. As advertised. 2nd pic. on the table awaiting reassembly from as shipped. Now looking at the area around where the dividing wheel mounts.............What is up with the shaft? That little plunger that gets locked out of the way & is never covered on YouTube............This 1 needs to be finished out. The set point in the set screw doesn't even fit the slot. So, this is where we will start. Questions?
 
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4gsr

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#2
That little piece in the third picture should have a spring behind it when assembled into that hole just above the stem where the index plate mounts.
When you are using it for straight indexing, the pin is lined up with the hole nearest to it in the index plate you are using. When using the dividing head for cutting helixes and I believe differential indexing, the pin is not engaged with the index plate. It's been over 30 years since the last time I used the one I had, which was just like this one in the pictures.
 

BROCKWOOD

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#3
Thanks Ken. Yes the spring is still in the housing. Just trying to get the pin on the end of the set screw to fit the slot in the larger pin. Then it's on to the rest of what needs to be brought back to stock.
 

BROCKWOOD

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#5
Hoping to keep progress going on this restoration. I ordered up a set of mini end mills to put the slot size right for the pin in pic 1. Also, in the same pic is 1 of 2 screws needed for the slide adjuster. I have to make another since there should be 2. In the next pic, there is what appears to be a bit of mangled up allen wrench for a pin. Does anyone have a clear pic of what this should look like?

20170605_19473.jpg
20170605_19474.jpg
 
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4gsr

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#6
I don't recall mine having the set screw or the thumb screw. Seem like there was a pin driven into the piece the slotted piece went into. That thumb screw is not original. Mine had the index handle go thru a rectangular slot in the shaft in your bottom picture, instead of having an offset piece that it fits into as yours has. I think someone has been monkeying with yours.
 

BROCKWOOD

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#7
OldMachinist, in his thread shows a very similar arrangement to mine for the thumbscrews. All the same - mine has been monkeyed with. I intend to undo all the monkey business. I've shown the index crank handle assembly on top of the unit itself to point out another difference. Instead of the neat little popup oilers, I have 2 grease zerts, 1 of which is in a different location. Mine must be a newer version.

IMG_20170605_210746710.jpg
IMG_20170605_210804595.jpg
 
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4gsr

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#8
Okay, I see where the thumb screw goes. Mine was a little older model from yours and didn't have that feature. Sorry.
 

benmychree

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#9
That little piece in the third picture should have a spring behind it when assembled into that hole just above the stem where the index plate mounts.
When you are using it for straight indexing, the pin is lined up with the hole nearest to it in the index plate you are using. When using the dividing head for cutting helixes and I believe differential indexing, the pin is not engaged with the index plate. It's been over 30 years since the last time I used the one I had, which was just like this one in the pictures.
I have one and use it frequently; yes, what you state is correct regarding the pin behind the dividing plate.
 

benmychree

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#10
I think I have the gear set that goes to that style dividing head. They dont fit the cinci head I have
I have a set for a Cincinnati dividing head and the housing that the change gears mount in for table drive of the dividing head; I'd like to sell them, as they do not fit my Brown & Sharpe --- which I do have all the gearing for, including the short lead attachment.
 

benmychree

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#11
I don't recall mine having the set screw or the thumb screw. Seem like there was a pin driven into the piece the slotted piece went into. That thumb screw is not original. Mine had the index handle go thru a rectangular slot in the shaft in your bottom picture, instead of having an offset piece that it fits into as yours has. I think someone has been monkeying with yours.
The pin you see in the worm shaft is the original, that is how they are supposed to look.
 

benmychree

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#12
OldMachinist, in his thread shows a very similar arrangement to mine for the thumbscrews. All the same - mine has been monkeyed with. I intend to undo all the monkey business. I've shown the index crank handle assembly on top of the unit itself to point out another difference. Instead of the neat little popup oilers, I have 2 grease zerts, 1 of which is in a different location. Mine must be a newer version View attachment 234965 View attachment 234966 .
My dividing head is the same as the one pictured, it has the zerk fittings also.
 

4gsr

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#13
The pin you see in the worm shaft is the original, that is how they are supposed to look.
How do you know that is the way it is?

Brown and Sharpe made several different versions of this dividing head in it's day and some of them vary just a little and some of them are obviously different.
The one I had was much older than these in the picture and mine had a pin driven in and not a modified special set screw.

Let's be careful with our words here. And nothing wrong with chiming in and letting us know how yours is alike or different from others.

Ken
 

benmychree

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#14
How do you know that is the way it is?

Brown and Sharpe made several different versions of this dividing head in it's day and some of them vary just a little and some of them are obviously different.
The one I had was much older than these in the picture and mine had a pin driven in and not a modified special set screw.

Let's be careful with our words here. And nothing wrong with chiming in and letting us know how yours is alike or different from others.

Ken
I have had several of these over the years, and they were all alike in that respect; you need to be able to unscrew the driving pin to be able to remove and change the index plates. To be sure there are differences between older and newer dividing heads; the earliest had a tapered spindle and iron bearings in the body, and there were several different methods and mechanisms to disengage the worm from the worm wheel, but I think the dividing plate and sector arm and the pin that locks the plate from the back are the same in all that I have ever seen.
 

4gsr

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#15
Okay, different driving pin. Yeah, you're right on that one. I'm still stuck on the little pin that holds the spring loaded piece that engages the index plate for simple indexing.

Hey, Never mind, I'm wrong, I see the hole in one of the pictures above that the pin goes in.
 

benmychree

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#16
On mine, the pin fits into the collar that fits in the sleeve that carries the back index pin; when you push the index pin against the spring and rotate the collar with the pin engaging in the keyway in the pin carrier, and rotate the collar into the circumfrential groove in the pin carrier, it locks the pin out of engagement with the back of the index disc so that it may freely rotate when doing spiral cutting or differential indexing. It also makes it easier to change index plates by not having the pressure against the plate tending to cock it and make it difficult to start the screws in the plate.
 

BROCKWOOD

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#17
BLOW UP ART.jpg
BENMYCHREE wrote, "On mine, the pin fits into the collar (42) that fits in the sleeve (40) that carries the back index pin (43); when you push the index pin against the spring and rotate the collar with the pin engaging in the keyway in the pin carrier, and rotate the collar into the circumferential groove in the pin carrier, it locks the pin out of engagement with the back of the index disc so that it may freely rotate when doing spiral cutting or differential indexing. It also makes it easier to change index plates by not having the pressure against the plate tending to cock it and make it difficult to start the screws in the plate."

Guys, the drawing doesn't fit all versions, isn't complete & does not offer up an official name for any of the parts (such as would be seen on a parts list). I am thrilled that this open discussion has begun. But, I realize that in introducing part 2 before finishing part 1, much confusion crept in. I apologize. Before deconstructing all this back to part 1, I must thank BENMYCHREE on 2 parts:
1st is the Driving Pin (not shown in the drawing). He mentioned that it unscrews. Mine simply looks to be a piece of Allen key that had been driven into part (27) so hard that it fractured. Screwdriver slot is that bad. I'll be making a replacement.
2nd is the above quote that describes just what all it is we are talking about. I tried to add part numbers to his part descriptions, but ran out of parts in the drawing to refer to.

I also thank 4GSR for his input!

Now SEASICKSTEVE & BENMYCHREE might have parts going to where they can be put to good use! All in all, to quote my favorite line from the movie Overboard, "It's been a hell of a day at sea Sir!"

I'll pick back up on part 1 when my mini end mills come in so repairs can be made to the back index pin (43).

Keep Rockin,
b
 

benmychree

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#18
The parts diagram, although generally it is illustrative and fairly true to the original it is not made by B&S, but by a Japanese manufacturer; I bought one of these new, and used it many years until I was able to find a genuine one; thanks, E Bay!
 

4gsr

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#19
View attachment 235000
BENMYCHREE wrote, "On mine, the pin fits into the collar (42) that fits in the sleeve (40) that carries the back index pin (43); when you push the index pin against the spring and rotate the collar with the pin engaging in the keyway in the pin carrier, and rotate the collar into the circumferential groove in the pin carrier, it locks the pin out of engagement with the back of the index disc so that it may freely rotate when doing spiral cutting or differential indexing. It also makes it easier to change index plates by not having the pressure against the plate tending to cock it and make it difficult to start the screws in the plate."

Guys, the drawing doesn't fit all versions, isn't complete & does not offer up an official name for any of the parts (such as would be seen on a parts list). I am thrilled that this open discussion has begun. But, I realize that in introducing part 2 before finishing part 1, much confusion crept in. I apologize. Before deconstructing all this back to part 1, I must thank BENMYCHREE on 2 parts:
1st is the Driving Pin (not shown in the drawing). He mentioned that it unscrews. Mine simply looks to be a piece of Allen key that had been driven into part (27) so hard that it fractured. Screwdriver slot is that bad. I'll be making a replacement.
2nd is the above quote that describes just what all it is we are talking about. I tried to add part numbers to his part descriptions, but ran out of parts in the drawing to refer to.

I also thank 4GSR for his input!

Now SEASICKSTEVE & BENMYCHREE might have parts going to where they can be put to good use! All in all, to quote my favorite line from the movie Overboard, "It's been a hell of a day at sea Sir!"

I'll pick back up on part 1 when my mini end mills come in so repairs can be made to the back index pin (43).

Keep Rockin,
b
Hey, is there a chance of getting a scan of your manual to your dividing head? I know there is a scan of the BS-1 manual/parts book in the down loads... I'm to go look to see if the BS-2 manual exists.

EDIT:

Here's the scan available to all here. Yeah, it's from the Japanese company, too.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/b-s-dividing-head-n0-0-1-2-specs-pdf.2216/
 
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BROCKWOOD

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#20
Hey Ken, I have manipulated page 6 from the usual B&S 0-1-2 that we all have seen. All I did was cut out the B&S 0, 1 & tailstock portions then move the title & resize it all. I wish I did have a manual that answered the questions we have raised on this thread!
 

benmychree

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#21
Hey Ken, I have manipulated page 6 from the usual B&S 0-1-2 that we all have seen. All I did was cut out the B&S 0, 1 & tailstock portions then move the title & resize it all. I wish I did have a manual that answered the questions we have raised on this thread!
I am fairly sure that I have a parts book that covers the dividing head, will look tomorrow; if you can find a manual on a #2 universal mill, it would include parts for the dividing head.
 

BROCKWOOD

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#23
Well, those pics hurt my eyes after posting them. Any suggestions? They are much better on my hard drive.
 

benmychree

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#25
Those are better than the ones that I found, one is for the later type that is made more like a Cincinnati, the other is an earlier plain bearing type.
 

BROCKWOOD

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#27
Still waiting on my mini end mills to come, so that I can fix my Index Stop Pin (702). They should be here tomorrow, but I have a 12 hour shift........
Progress, I looked into the Spindle Stop (706 & 707). I noticed a detent in the 706 portion but no springs or brass on any of this. So I made springs & a brass 'bullet'. Having 'clocked' the spur gear to get the detent to function properly, I find the handle is pointing the wrong way. Gonna take heat to get the screw loose so that it can be turned around.
Moving forward, the Worm Shaft Pinion Knob & Nut (717 & 716) apparently came with the nut locked down by a small dowel into the main body & the knob had 4 set screws holding it tight to the nut. Somebody wanted the Index permanently engaged.
Same pics, The forward Spiral Gear Guard (no number) is Brass & is cleaning up nicely!
Now the other WHY? I have for now is the Worm Shaft Adjusting Screw (703). It will be interesting to see why a bolt was added to it.
As always: Ideas, Answers, theories & Solutions are welcome! 20170609 01.jpg 20170609 02.jpg 20170609 04.jpg
 

4gsr

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#28
It never ceases me to wonder why people do things like that!:(
 

Silverbullet

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#30
Hammer and chisel man., not even a backyard mechanic.
I just got a small l&w dividing head , I hope it's not abused this bad.
 
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