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Bridgeport Power Feed 6f Motor Mount Question

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expressline99

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#1
Hi guys, I'm about to remount the motor on my power feed to the gearbox. At some point someone told me using a bit of RTV is recommended for the area around the mounting flange. Just where the mating surfaces are and in the two reset screw holes. But I forget what type of RTV. It was either red or blue. One was said to get into the gearbox and one not so much... any ideas?

Also, there appears to be a recessed area around the base of the shaft for a large o-ring? This is the area just before the first rise in height from the mounting plate. Looks to be about 2-3/4" ? I can't find any diagrams that show an o-ring there and I assume using the RTV will take care of this anyway.

Thanks,
Paul
 

chips&more

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#2
Hi Paul, make sure you carefully clean all the carbon dust out of the motor. And check the front and back bearings. I typically see bad or dirty bearings. And RTV around the flange should be just fine. Maybe those rubber sealing washers would be a good idea for the mounting bolts? The motor will self-align when you install it. The housing cover on the other side of the motor side gets a gasket. Glad to hear you are using the genuine Bridgeport feed. I think the other feeds are crap. Good Luck…Dave.
 

Bob Korves

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#3
I would use anaerobic gasket sealer instead of RTV anywhere there is a decent fit. It does not harden unless confined in a small space, and any excess dissolves in the oil. RTV has ruined many a machine, and lots of automotive engines. If you do use RTV on machine parts, remember you aren't caulking your house...
 

expressline99

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#4
Hi Paul, make sure you carefully clean all the carbon dust out of the motor. And check the front and back bearings. I typically see bad or dirty bearings. And RTV around the flange should be just fine. Maybe those rubber sealing washers would be a good idea for the mounting bolts? The motor will self-align when you install it. The housing cover on the other side of the motor side gets a gasket. Glad to hear you are using the genuine Bridgeport feed. I think the other feeds are crap. Good Luck…Dave.
Hey Dave, the reason I took the whole thing off started with the "magic smoke" the motor was giving off. When I took it apart the inside of the motor had oil residue everywhere. I cleaned it out and while I was at it replaced the brush holders, brushes and caps. The bearing on the output side of the shaft had a odd dragging feeling to it when spun with my fingers so I replaced it. The other side seemed just fine.

I just put in a new light and new fuse holder on the front panel. Still need to clean out everything in the gearbox it has either really old oil or blackened grease here and there...other than that the inside was dry when I got it. I wonder how long it's been since it's had oil... I have a new gasket for the front cover where the oil sight glass is.

****Note for anyone taking off the front cover where the oil level is... there is a detent pin that is spring loaded. It is seated in the front cover and will spring out. Nice and easy to lose. Anyway this pin and spring push against the "clutch detent cam". It stops the clutch from going to far in either direction as you shift it.

I'll have to take a picture of the o-ring recess that I see on the motor flange.

Now that I've been reading on RTV vs anaerobic gasket sealer I think I've got to go back to the auto part store tomorrow. I like the idea that the extra will dissolve in the oil. I assume when hardened that it's oil resistant?
 

Rick_B

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#5
I'm in the middle of the same project Pasul so I have some of the same questions. I completely disassembled all the pieces and parts on mine and there was a lot of red material at the sealing joints - it peeled right off so I'm not sure what it was. I also purchased some new parts including the front cover gasket. What is your plan for installing that gasket? Does it go on dry or would you use some type of light oil coating or gasket adhesive?

Regarding your O ring question - mine actually has two O rings on the shaft side of the motor - I have not seen them on any of the parts lists I have but there is not too much information available on the motor that I have found. I'll try to get some pictures later today.

I've read that the weak point of this feeder is oil leaks into the electronics but I am concerned about the mtor mounting flange as well

Rick
 

Rick_B

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#6
So here's the pictures of the O rings on my motor - not sure if they are original or previous owner added.

This is the outside face of the bearing retainer on the shaft end of the motor
Bearing%20Retainer%20O%20ring_zpsu1uxzgn7.jpg

This is the inside face of what I am calling a seal plate - also on the shaft end of the motor
Seal%20O%20ring_zpseo9z8llw.jpg

When installed - these O rings appear to butt up to each other - not sure if they are helping, hurting or have no effect

Rick
 

expressline99

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#7
Hey Rick,
I had to go out and take the plate off the end of my motor to see this. Mine doesn't have an o-ring there. But it looks like it should have one.
The one I was talking about (I think) goes where I'm pointing in the attached picture.

On the gasket I will probably just put a light film of the gearbox oil on it and both mating surfaces. I don't plan on using any type of gasket adhesive. Unless someone else has input on that?

I also replaced the shaft seal in the gearbox last night. Mine was completely chewed up in there. I believe you are right about the electronics getting oiled but the shaft seal
should handle that. Overfilling the gearbox is another problem I read about.
 

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Rick_B

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#8
That looks like a good place for an O ring Paul. I also got a new shaft seal. I'm having trouble getting the clutch shaft to go through the bottom bushing - it goes about halfway so I ordered a new bushing to eliminate that variable. I'm hoping the shaft isn't bent.

I'm assuming (but don't know for sure) that the oil level should be about half way up the sight glass?

Do you have any concerns about oil leaks around the bearing shaft seats in the gearbox housing - I'm tlking about the drive shaft inboard and outboard bearings?

Rick
 

expressline99

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That looks like a good place for an O ring Paul. I also got a new shaft seal. I'm having trouble getting the clutch shaft to go through the bottom bushing - it goes about halfway so I ordered a new bushing to eliminate that variable. I'm hoping the shaft isn't bent.

I'm assuming (but don't know for sure) that the oil level should be about half way up the sight glass?

Do you have any concerns about oil leaks around the bearing shaft seats in the gearbox housing - I'm tlking about the drive shaft inboard and outboard bearings?

Rick
My clutch shaft was bent at the top just below the handle. So it didn't interfere with the bushings. But I took the bend out somewhat by putting it in a vise and using a piece of square tubing. It's really soft metal. Bends easy. I didn't have to do that where it enters a bushing though. Might have to replace it.

My sight glass still has the marks on it and it appears to be half way up. So the oil level will be really low. By the looks of it it maybe just below the edge of the drive shaft bearings. I don't think it will leak. Mine doesn't seem to have leaked before but its been many years since it's seen oil.
 

expressline99

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#10
Hey Rick after messing around at the auto parts store today. I bought several o-rings and managed to get anaerobic gasket sealer (o'reilly's 51813) was $5.99 for a tiny tube. I bought the two they had considering they both contain less than an oz.. they didn't have the larger tubes. As well, I had to go to two different stores apparently only some carry it. Anyhow, after all this I couldn't find an o ring to work on the larger diameter and I'm unhappy with how far out the collar is pushed out on the motor where you have yours. So on both the motor flange and the collar I'll be using the sealer I bought without the rings. Hopefully that will workout.
 

Bob Korves

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#11
The 51813 anaerobic sealer is Permatex brand (once a parts guy, always a parts guy) and needs to be confined to within a fifteen thousandths (.015") or less to harden. Let it set up for a day or so at 70 degrees F., much longer in the cold before putting oil in the case. Bigger gaps also take longer to set up...
 

expressline99

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The 51813 anaerobic sealer is Permatex brand (once a parts guy, always a parts guy) and needs to be confined to within a fifteen thousandths (.015") or less to harden. Let it set up for a day or so at 70 degrees F., much longer in the cold before putting oil in the case. Bigger gaps also take longer to set up...
OK tomorrow I'll be cleaning up the surfaces and getting it put back together. I guess I'll just bring the entire assembly into the house to cure before reattaching to the mill. Wonder how that will go with the wife. I'll have to find a place near a radiator to keep it toasty for the next day or two. Thanks Bob I appreciate the help on the anaerobic sealer. A couple of the parts guys didn't know what I was talking about but tried hard to help. Once I got to the store that had it several non-millennial guys knew exactly what it was.

Paul
 

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#13
Anaerobic merely means that it works in the absence of air. The squeeze tubes are actually porous so it does not set up in the tube.
 

expressline99

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#14
Well just for testing I wired the motor back up before putting it all together. It did not respond to feed control until I turned it up a bit. Once it moved I turned it up a bit more and sure enough it blew the fuse. So I'm at a loss as to why.
 

expressline99

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#15
So I've gone back to this and took the circuit board out. Cleaned it thoroughly with contact cleaner as suggested. I also spent a couple of hours going through the resistors on the board. De soldering, testing and re-soldering. I've found a couple that are out of tolerance so I will replace those. On those odd bullet/tapered (diodes?) any ideas on what i can replace them with? I haven't gotten as far as figuring out how to test them or even what else to test on the board. I'd like to test and replace everything on the board that needs it. Any pointers? I have the diagrams and I am too much of an amateur to read much of it.

And another side note for anyone deciding to do this make sure you have a solder sucker(spring loaded kind is what I have). They work great and are cheap. Tin the end of your soldering iron each time before de-soldering. Makes it a ton easier and don't linger when heating up the solder on the board you can lift your pads/traces. Those solder wicks are terrible.
 

expressline99

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#16
Today I found a capacitor that had a broken leg. I can't imagine that it would have worked at all with that disconnected so I'm not totally sure that was like that before I started working on it.

Anyone have any idea what Watts the resistors are on that board? They all appear to be 1/2 watt but I'm not certain. I am however certain that Radio Shack doesn't have any of my needed resistors and the capacitors they had were 35 volt instead of 25v so that won't work either. Looks like I'll be ordering online. Bummer.

All the diodes seem to be OK I checked those today. Also pulled the motor apart again and cleaned it more thoroughly with the contact cleaner. The commutator was dinged up and worn unevenly. So I put it on the Logan and turned it down a few hairs and then cleaned it up with some 600 grit sand paper.

Tomorrow the other capacitors (get to try the new tester I got at the shack for this.) Also get to check the Pots and the two transformers if I can figure it out. After that all that is left I think is the micro switches that control the direction of feed. Oh and the pot for the speed control. All a good learning experience.
 

Bob Korves

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#17
Today I found a capacitor that had a broken leg. I can't imagine that it would have worked at all with that disconnected so I'm not totally sure that was like that before I started working on it.

Anyone have any idea what Watts the resistors are on that board? They all appear to be 1/2 watt but I'm not certain. I am however certain that Radio Shack doesn't have any of my needed resistors and the capacitors they had were 35 volt instead of 25v so that won't work either. Looks like I'll be ordering online. Bummer.

All the diodes seem to be OK I checked those today. Also pulled the motor apart again and cleaned it more thoroughly with the contact cleaner. The commutator was dinged up and worn unevenly. So I put it on the Logan and turned it down a few hairs and then cleaned it up with some 600 grit sand paper.

Tomorrow the other capacitors (get to try the new tester I got at the shack for this.) Also get to check the Pots and the two transformers if I can figure it out. After that all that is left I think is the micro switches that control the direction of feed. Oh and the pot for the speed control. All a good learning experience.
Wattage on the resistors does not matter as long as you go with the same or higher rating and they can physically fit. The higher voltage rating for a capacitor is a good thing, can handle higher transient peaks. Again, don't go lower, make sure it will fit where it needs to go.
 

chips&more

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#18
Wattage on the resistors does not matter as long as you go with the same or higher rating and they can physically fit. The higher voltage rating for a capacitor is a good thing, can handle higher transient peaks. Again, don't go lower, make sure it will fit where it needs to go.
I would focus more on getting a cap with a higher temp rating. The ones with the higher temp rating typically last longer . And yes, of course, make sure it has the correct working voltage…Dave.
 
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Bob Korves

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#20
NOTE: Electrolytic capacitors are polarity sensitive! They go in the circuit in one direction only!
They have a strange stripe down one side that has what looks like "O"s along it with "-"s inside the Os. The dashes are actually minuses, the negative connection side of the capacitor.
 

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#21
Electrolytic capacitors have a finite life span (usually 7-10 years), even if not used. The live span is decreased with both heat and operating them near their maximum voltage ratings. The specification (measured capacitance) on electrolytic capacitors can be very wide, so something like -20 to +50% of their rated uF value. Using the standard multi-meter to check capacitor value is of minimal value, unless the capacitor is completely dead. Replacing an electrolytic you do not need the exact same uF value, anything close is fine and getting something rated for the same or higher voltage is fine, they should be 105C or higher temperature rated. Newer capacitors are significantly better than those used in past years, so given the age of the drive you are best replacing them. Most electrolytics are polar as others have indicated, there ia a + and - end, the - is connected to the shell, the plus you can see some insulation between it and the outer shell. There are also non-polar electrolytic capacitorss, that do not have a polarity orientation. Newer diodes usually work or fail, so if they check OK I would just leave them.

You might consider buying the replacements parts through an online vendor like Mouser Electronics, a wider selection, fresh stock and probably cheaper even with shipping.
 

expressline99

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I will certainly buy from that vendor for what I can. Today I took all four of the pots off of the board. I found one that was all over the place while being tested. The cheapest I can find is $25.00 for that one. I have no idea how to cross the part number over to another one that will fit. There are only 4 of the electrolytics so I'll replace all of them. It's pretty easy. Trolling around on the internet it seems the general consensus is to leave all of the "red" (polyester?) capacitors alone.

Are the lugs on the circuit board resistors?

Do I need to test the two transformers on the board?

I'm going to replace the limit switches on the forward and reverse.
 

mksj

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#23
The pots sometimes get dirty and that causes them to be erratic, but it can also get worn out or the wiper tension has gone. There are some electronic spray cleaner lubricants for pots, you could try that first. Only use a cleaner specific for electronics. The pots are pretty standard, so you need the same value, wattage needs to be the same or higher, you need to know if the pot is linear or log, linear will show 1/2 the total resistance at 50%. Standard through hole mounting pots can be purchased on eBay or Mouser at around $10-12. Leave the polyester caps alone, they rarely go. Transformers should either work or not work in this type of application, I would leave them alone. If powering up you have no power, then check the voltages. If you are looking for a specific component, take a picture and indicate any number on the part and we can point you to a source.

Resistors are usually leaded wires, no ferules. Older boards used ferules to through connect or as standoffs. I normally do not pull everything off a board to check values unless there is a problem or something appears burnt. Unless you have a desoldering device or station, you can damage the traces on the board. I do replace the electrolytics with older equipment. Resistors can vary a bit, they usually do not need to be exact values in this application. Some equipment give voltage checks at different points on a board.
 

expressline99

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#24
I tested the speed control pot on the front and it only varies between 605 and 608 ohm. It's rated at 500 ohm.
I took it apart and it has a wiper that is made up of several tines that are bent at a 90 degree angle. Almost like a claw dragging. Doesn't look that dirty.

It's a Clarostat made in the usa. Numbers on the back are: CM41655 and 19-8015 with 500 ohms. Shaft diameter of .247 length is .477 past the threads. (lol) Supposed to measure pot shafts to the thousands right?

One thing I didn't mention is I did get contact cleaner from home depot that seems to work great.
 
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chips&more

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#25
You are very inquisitive! That can be a good thing or a bad thing. I applaud your dive in attitude! But a little caution can save you money. That pot that you just opened up was probably OK. And it was a “sealed” type potentiometer. Radio Shack will not have that replacement.
 

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It is OK to open these types of pots, they are not hermetically sealed or molded. I assume it is a 500 Ohm linear pot, they are often +/-10% unless it is a precision pot. Manufactures often use their own model numbers and often have custom values/specifications built. Depending on the application, you can often parallel or serially add a fixed resistor to adjust the pot value (pad), this is not an issue if it is set to a fixed value as part of the calibration setup as opposed to a panel speed range dial. The pot is fairly common, in harsh environments I do look for sealed pots (often military surplus) or sometimes wire wound, the latter usually work even if contaminate with oil.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clarostat-potentiometer-500-Ohm-model-53C3-500-S-/322365816902
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkey53C3500
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-ALLEN-BRADLEY-500-OHM-LINEAR-2WATT-AB-POTS-/262751775766
 

expressline99

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You are very inquisitive! That can be a good thing or a bad thing. I applaud your dive in attitude! But a little caution can save you money. That pot that you just opened up was probably OK. And it was a “sealed” type potentiometer. Radio Shack will not have that replacement.
Thank you that's a wonderful complement. I can get OCD in some odd ways.
Interestingly enough I took the one off of the circuit board... the one that was going all over the place on the resistance. That one I also carefully pried up the tabs and it was filthy inside. I believe it had gotten soaked in oil like most of the components. I cleaned it up put it back together and viola! That one is back to being nice and balanced between contacts. As well as adjustable like it's meant to be. So all the pots on the board are functioning and remounted.

Last night I placed an order through mouser for the bad resistors and 4 replacement caps for the old electrolytics.

What readings should I get ohm wise on that 500 ohm pot for controlling speed?
 

expressline99

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It is OK to open these types of pots, they are not hermetically sealed or molded. I assume it is a 500 Ohm linear pot, they are often +/-10% unless it is a precision pot. Manufactures often use their own model numbers and often have custom values/specifications built. Depending on the application, you can often parallel or serially add a fixed resistor to adjust the pot value (pad), this is not an issue if it is set to a fixed value as part of the calibration setup as opposed to a panel speed range dial. The pot is fairly common, in harsh environments I do look for sealed pots (often military surplus) or sometimes wire wound, the latter usually work even if contaminate with oil.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clarostat-potentiometer-500-Ohm-model-53C3-500-S-/322365816902
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkey53C3500
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-ALLEN-BRADLEY-500-OHM-LINEAR-2WATT-AB-POTS-/262751775766
I also added to my order last night this one:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=380C1500virtualkey67810000virtualkey785-380C1500

Will that work?
 

chips&more

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#29
If you are changing the resistors that I’m thinking about? Then they went bad/smoked because your forward-reverse switches are bad. You will need two new micro switches. Don’t bother trying to clean them, BER, just buy new ones. And the trimers on the board only get turned when you tune the board to the motor, after that, they are torque sealed. And it really doesn’t mean that much in your end result of the whole shebang working. If you think that was the problem with the feed not working, it was not. And I’m not saying it wasn’t a problem, just not the one that killed your Power Feed.
 
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