Big Lathe vs Small Lathe

[Robert LaLonde]

You know early in this thread somebody tried to call me out as being a troll, (or something like that). I'm glad I let that go because there have been some great posts about large and small machines since then.

 

[epanzella]

I've got a Grizzly 12x36 G4003G which I thought was too big when I bought it but my projects grew into it. Now I think it's the perfect size for me. Collets and a small drill chuck with a straight shank take care of the small stuff for me.

 

[samthedog]

A "Chippy" is an awfully nice machine. I looked for a Chipmaster for years, before the S&B 1024 came my way - which satiated that "need". Regardless of the discussion around what size lathe (or how many machines of whatever size) if a good condition Chipmaster were to available in my area, I'd be all over it and I'd still keep the S&B.

The S&B 1024 is on my list of dream lathes. Rigid, classic design and with a good high speed for small work make it very attractive for me. The challenge was finding one in Scandinavia. My Chippie was a needle in a haystack and given the metric gearbox, full set of very rare change gears and the like new condition, I figured this was likely as good as I was going to find.

The Chippie and the S&B have similar capacities but the Chippie comes in at at least half the weight. Both machines are 3HP (if you have the mk II) but I would prefer 3HP on a more rigid machine - not that I am complaining. Given the stiffness of the Chipmaster's bed I have not encountered any issues with a lack of finish quality even on heavy cuts.

Paul.

 

[Chipper5783]

There are many discussions here about buying a lathe.

Here is the story on the Smart and Brown: I went against most of the advise given here. The only advise I followed was being handy with the cash and transport ready. I had never heard of Smart and Brown before the auction advert. There was no opportunity for a preview (other than the hour of waiting for other lots to sell), the machine could not be tested, access to the machine was limited (there were other lots piled near by), there was no report on condition or anyone present who had information on it (the machine had been sitting for several years) and one of the housings for the cross slide was broken (broken pieces in a plastic bag in the chip pan). The sale was as is / where is.

I got it for $1700. Was that a lot? Obviously that is a relative term. You keep hearing of some fabulous deals of some tool maker's estate with a bunch of dream machines going for pennies on the dollar - "gee, wouldn't that be nice?" I've pointed out to countless people that is not a realistic way to get into home machining. When a machine comes up that seems right for you - you generally get 2 choices, take it or leave it. At my price point, I can't be choosie.

I've picked up several machines that I think are good deals. Every one who has been to my shop claims they wish they could have found such a deal (like I practically stole it). Every one of my "great deals" came because I worked at it. Every one was some sort of well published sale - other people just didn't see the gem.

The S&B is a Mk1 (so a round head, no variable feature), it came with what I think of as the standard dress: 3J, 4J, TTA, SR/FR, FP, collet draw bar. The bed appeared fine, a RapidO post and no holders. The works original components are difficult to track down. This was never a cheap machine, while it had seen some tough days, for the most part it would have been well cared for. Also, a good quality machine can withstand some neglect and still be okay. I assumed that replacement parts would not be available, and I would be making them (turns out many parts are still available, but at prices that would take one's breath away). It has the same spindle as my larger lathe. Considering the good and the bad, just from what I could see - I decided it was for me.

The result has been very satisfying. The machine is very nice to run, quite and well thought out. It has a good high speed, but I really like the low speed (slower than my larger machine). I have never had a variable speed machine, so the shift on the fly is quite a treat.

 

[samthedog]

The result has been very satisfying. The machine is very nice to run, quite and well thought out. It has a good high speed, but I really like the low speed (slower than my larger machine). I have never had a variable speed machine, so the shift on the fly is quite a treat.

I paid a lot more for my Chipmaster than you did for your S&B. I had to drive a 16 hour round trip and paid about $3500 combined for fuel and the machine. That said, I still consider it a bargain and would do it again. There is not a project that goes by that I don't smile to myself while using that little beauty. It has many of the same features as your lathe (speed change on the fly - isn't it a wonderful luxury?) and is very well thought out -although I purchased mine with many of the accessories.

I have never regretted the money and time I spent to get the machine. Unlike a car or motorcycle, it does not de-appreciate and will likely go to my son when I can no longer use it.

Paul.

 

[Chipper5783]

I think you did very well on picking up that Chippie.

I have talked to a number of people who shelled out extra money to get what they felt was a "better" machine. Myself included. I spent over $10,000 for my first lathe (that was 34 years ago). I keep hearing the same response that you gave, "they never regretted the money and time spent to get that better machine". I too, have no regrets about that first lathe purchase - I have put thousands of hours on that first machine, done plenty of good work, had fun, learned lots (and still learning) - it still is the most used machine in my shop.

Yet over and over - when people ask about purchasing a lathe/mill they want to buy a really good machine really cheap and ask for opinions on the lowest priced product on the market! I understand that one should not mortgage their house and destroy their marriage because of the toys they want to buy. I strongly encourage people to stay within the "excess" portion of their income. Sure the price is an important consideration, just not the first defining criteria of what to buy.

It is hard to evaluate if a given machine actually is "better". If it is a used machine, how do you know if there isn't a major issue that is not immediately obvious? If it is a new machine, how do you know if the talk up is not just marketing spin? It is pretty much a given that the cheapest machine of that size is not going to be "better".

I suppose everyone will have a slightly different way to approach those questions. My approach of late has been to buy what looks like a boat anchor (at near boat anchor prices) so long as the pedigree is good, and the main pieces are all present. The only exceptions have been the first lathe and the first mill - I spent a bit extra to reduce the uncertainty.

Most people have some sort of hobby, activity, past time that is not an absolute necessity. I don't happen to be into snowmobiles, fancy vehicles, expensive vacations, high priced art, boats, partying, . . . . . . add what ever you want to the list. I have a very well dressed home workshop and my spend is less than most of the what the back country sleds are that you'll see around here - and I still do much of the same stuff that "normal" people do.

 

[vtcnc]

I bought an Omniturn GT75 new from the boys in Oregon, and love it. Small foot print for having it in the garage. I also got C-axis live tooling option that has come in handy.

These are not really good for large diameter parts. No tail stock. Tool table is just 1/2" off centerline. Long parts are ok as long as you just doing end work to work piece. Hand load type deal for those.

I never did pull the trigger on Camware thou. Didn't see package that I liked and have been just writing g-codes. Not that bad actually.

It's a part maker with bar feed running.

Biggest trick is being smart on setting up tool table. When I 1st got it , it was not performing like it should. I was thinking the lathe was off. My mech engineer buddy mentioned earlier in this thread, said no way, it's not working because of you. He was right, I was doing things wrong.

Part runs of 100 - 500 is common for me. Usually when the parts for my own jobs. I don't like doing to many since I tend to over think my designs and want changes.

The 2K - 5K type orders are always nice thou.

Curious...what do you consider large diameter. Looking at the Omniturn and just wondering what one could do practically speaking with this. Can it not handle long parts over 1” diameter?


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[Aaron_W]

Curious...what do you consider large diameter. Looking at the Omniturn and just wondering what one could do practically speaking with this. Can it not handle long parts over 1” diameter?


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It doesn't look like that poster has been active since January.

Curious so I looked up the specs, comes standard with a 5C collet holder, optional 4" chuck. Says max diameter of cutting 6" but max bar holding is only 1.06" (probably max for a 5C collet?). 1650lbs, 3x5 feet and 6 feet tall, 5hp, $36,000, seems like a lot of machine for such small parts, but obviously it is specialized for doing something because the working specs look more like what you would see on a mini-lathe. I am assuming what ever it does, it does it very fast.

http://www.omniturn.com/bin/GT-75.htm