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Ball type oil nipple & oil injector

Discussion in 'MACHINE RESTORATION & WAY SCRAPING' started by petertha, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Not sure if this is the right forum, but does anyone have a good lead of where to source the typical ball type (check valve maybe?) oil nipples like often found on lathes & mills? Actually let me rephrase - BETTER quality that what is typically found... :)

    After dismantling my lathe its now obvious some of the nipples may not have been accepting oil very well. I just assumed they were meeting flow resistance in between close surfaces where lubrication was require.

    I saw on Stefan's YouTube channel Vertex rotary table Teardown he replaces with some nice ones. Red dot = new, silver = original like mine.

    The other related issue might be my oiler. When I gave it my typical squeeze using my bottle, it was an anemic little squirt in the passage now that I can witness the true volume with no obstruction. Is that what these oversized hypodermic needle looking units are all about? Saw on ebay but looked like UK source & didn't ship to Canada.
     

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  2. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Mcmaster sells them, called Gits oilers. RGD Tools in the UK also sells them. I have some from RGD Tools but I haven't tried them yet, haven't needed to. I added them to an order I placed from them a while back.

    I always wondered what those red ball oilers are that Stefan uses. I must have missed it if he talked about them. What are they?
     
  3. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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  4. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Oops, just missed your post DZ. In Stefans vid he shows how he drilled them out (from front side) or knocks them out (from rear) or threads & jacks them out (when they are stubborn). He just says 'more visible' so I'm not clear if its red because a synthetic material like a plastic, or still metal but somehow colored. I inquired about a supplier, if I hear back I will post.

    The color is a perk but mostly I'd like ones that actually work. I'm a bit concerned if they are metric & I buy an undersized one, locktiting them might not hold if the hole is sloppy. Those injector style oilers apparently can deliver have high pressure.
     
  5. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I typed 'gits' in McMaster search box but didn't get results. I see grease nipples & oiler cans. Do you have a PN?
     
  6. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks, yeah if you do find out a supllier please let us know. I thought that too, some sort of plastic ball or something. Just curious cause I've never seen them anywhere else other than on Stefan's lathe & stuff.

    I must have not paid attention when watchbhe Vertex teardown video. I'll go watch it again.

    I've had ball oiler get stuck on my tailstock before, luckily I was able to get the ball to pop back up. Even with better quality ones, they can still get stuck. What happens is if the tip's angle on your oil can is too narrow it will push the ball in too far which causes the spring to bottom out & bind.
     
  7. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Sorry, Gits is a brand/mfg & Mcmaster doesn't list brand names. Go to this page & scroll down a bit, "oil fittings for unthreaded holes"

    https://www.mcmaster.com/#oil-fittings/=16xzf9e
     
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  8. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yah I don't want to give you bad advice, but almost looks like when he drilled them from the oil in front side, the bit chamfers the insert housing to the point its now larger diameter than the ball. The ball & spring fly's out & then you are left with removing the oiler shell stuck in the casting. Watch the vid & ses if you agree.
     
  9. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Aha! those look like the ones & come in incremental sizes. Thanks!
     
  10. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That's ok, I'm not looking to replace any, just wondering what the red ball ones are.

    Some guys use a drywall or wood screw with the tip cut off screwed into them & yank them out. I don't think there's a way to remove them without damaging them unless you can press them out from behind.
     
  11. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A sheet metal screw works fine to screw in the hole and then lever the oiler out. Do not push the ball below the surface too far or it will go sideways into the corner. You will likely never get it back again. I use about 2" of clear vinyl plastic aquarium tubing on the end of my pump oiler, cut off square, and push that down on the ball and then pump oil. The tubing seals the interface, the pump overcomes the spring, and you can see the oil flowing into the oiler, and nowhere else. It also keeps your machine from getting scratched by the oil can tip, and the oil can is still completely useful for other tasks. The tubing needs to be replaced about twice a year because it gets stiff.
     
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  12. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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  13. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Good internet sleuth-age. That's got to be them.
     
  14. fretsman

    fretsman Active User Active Member

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    had to quote this as I was looking around my shop laughing......no offense meant, just cracked me up the way I work....
     
  15. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Some people really care about keeping their stuff pristine. I like to keep things in good shape and in good repair, but these are machines to work with, not to spit polish. To each their own... I just added it as another plus of using that method of oiling machines.
     
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  16. grzdomagala

    grzdomagala Austria Iron Registered Member

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    Pump pressure overcoming spring seems to be standard solution. Is that necessary? Are ball oilers used as a check valve with substantial oil pressure?
    I couldn't find suitable oil can for my minilathe (all commercial ones leaked badly) so i build adapter for medical syringe - and to reduce spillage "business end" contains push rod moving ball out of way - oil can be injected with minimal pressure. Works great for minilathe but will be messy if i ever use it on something with pressurised oil
     
  17. Hal H

    Hal H United States Active Member Active Member

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    Somewhere I saw where a guy made his oil can work better for oiling the ball type fittings.
    He cut a slit or X across the end of the tip of the oil can's nozzle . The nozzle tip pushes the ball down and the slit or X breaks the seal and lets the oil flow.

    Hal
     
  18. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The ball and spring are to keep contamination out.
     
  19. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That sounds like a way to drip oil all over the outside of the machine. Ball oilers are installed in vertical as well as in horizontal orientations. The idea is to get all the oil in the hole, and for it to stay there. Slits might work at adding a drop of oil a second, and then letting it work it's way into the small opening, at least in oilers installed on horizontal surfaces. When I oil, I want to get the oil in there, under pressure, no fooling around, and without wasting oil or leaving a mess.
     
  20. woodchucker

    woodchucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    Not necessary, the tip breaks the seal, the pressure from the oil passes the oil past the ball. Too much overthinking .
     
  21. fradish

    fradish United States Active Member Active Member

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    Bob, I tried your aquarium hose trick and it worked great! Thanks for the tip.
     
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  22. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    To me the only down side is that it takes two hands to do. Then again, I have two hands available when oiling a machine...
     
  23. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    My oiler is a plastic squeeze bottle with a brass screw on nipple on the spot. The nipple taper section just nicely sits in the OD ledge above the ball. socket. When I squeeze, the oil it seems to overcome the spring pressure & allows injection. So I think you're absolutely right, the little spring cant be that strong, its just pushes the ball closed & keep debris out. Having sad that, the metal on metal is probably not great for repeatedly contacting that same tiny segment of contact area & you are kind inclined to push down on it to seal. So maybe galling or distorting that teeny edge after many lubrication cycles. Going to try the flexible tubing trick. Or maybe machine a nipple from something softer like a plastic?

    My lathe apron is removed & partially disassembled right now for a problem fix (pictorial expose forthcoming). What I discovered was some of the oil passages were filled with a (factory) waxy, mung grease. So all I was ever doing was dead-ending oil which never found its way to the shafts & surfaces intended to lubricate. Now I think if you cant squeeze anything in, maybe something is amiss. The things you find when all parts are in front of you :/
     
  24. fretsman

    fretsman Active User Active Member

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    I completely understood, my friend, and again, no offense was meant.....I just had to laugh that's all....lol
     
  25. Catwatcher

    Catwatcher United States Swarf Registered Member

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    Cheep oilers here:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/25270826469...49&var=551681344243&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
     
  26. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    On a somewhat related theme. I want to convert my lathe apron to an oil bath. Right now its an open casting & gears are coated with grease. I figure I can plate / seal off the bottom & drill 2 unobtrusive holes on the side with 90-deg fittings like sketch. The nipples would have a clear tubing between them. That way I can
    - see the oil level without drilling a bigger hole & sourcing one of those round window oil level type fittings that many complain leak after a while
    - use the upper nipple to fill & top up oil bath using a similar flex tube extension
    - use the bottom nipple to drain 90% of oil out if I have to disassemble apron

    I've located ZERK fittings, they come in a nice variety of flavors. My questions: They seem to be orientated to grease. Are the balls/springs inappropriate for typical gear oil viscosity? The bottom one needs to be ball-less so it could gravity drain. I see some straight ones like this but not the right angle versions. Can they be disassembled & spring/ball successfully removed?
     

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  27. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Alemite (Zerk) fittings work fine with oil. They are used on Bridgeport and other mills for oiling. Make sure that you will not have leaks from shafts and other through holes in the castings. You might need to modify things so that everything is properly sealed. Bulls eye oilers are more common that the type in the photo you posted, which are easily broken and much more difficult to install properly. Alemite fittings are only used for putting grease or oil in, not for draining it. How many decades has your lathe been working well with open gears, and without oil leaks? Is there really a good reason to make the modifications?
     
  28. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Good points. Here is what I'm mulling. The MDF is a pattern for what would be a metal plate held on with machine screws & gasket sealant. The Zerks were the least obstructive way I could think of to monitor oil level & fill & drain as mentioned. If ball-less 90-deg fittings aren't available I could make provisions for threaded drain plug on the bottom plate.

    Yes, leaks crossed my mind too, especially through the shaft holes that go through the apron casting. I looked at a few lathe parts manuals similar to my '97 Taiwan 14x40. Seems like they all have this kind of splash bath. For the most part I didn't see any extra rings or seal hardware so just assumed it might be the occasional wipe-off, but goes with the territory. Right now there are oil passages that lead right to these very shafts from a different route so assumed that would be similar end result. Well.. as it turns out were largely plugged off by the grease & its a miracle any oil was getting to them. But that's not the grease's fault :/

    In all honesty the gears look good. The grease itself - yeesh - looking a little stiff & waxy, but I never saw it when new (20 years ago now). Maybe it was like that all along. The machine has had pretty easy life up until the last 5 years or so as I started to make more things. So I guess my rationale was: carriage oil bath seems to be how all similar current lathes do these days it & it wouldn't be too difficult to retrofit mine. If I absolutely hated it or encountered unexpected issues, I remove everything & plug 2 holes that weren't there before.

    Speaking of grease, what would be a good rec for this sort of application?
     

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  29. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    From the photos it looks like the lathe was designed for a total loss oil lubrication system. Put oil in the oiling points, and it works its way by gravity to where it is needed, and then drips off the bottom of the gears and gear box. I think the grease idea is an effort of the previous owner to stop oil from dripping all over the chip pan, and perhaps to extend the lubrication intervals. The bad thing about grease is that it strongly attracts and holds swarf. Oil also washes out the metal byproducts of wear. If you do decide to go with an oil bath, you will only be able to fill the gearbox to the bottom of the lowest protruding shaft. Oil will have to climb its way up in the box by turning the gears, which gives a sort of a splash/dribble lube system. My Kent 13x40 uses that system, and they recommend way oil in the box to better help to keep the gears and other parts coated between sessions of use. For a drain plug, use a 1/8" or 1/4" pipe plug, square or socket head. Another idea is to use your bottom cover as a drain reservoir only, which would stop the dripping and and keep grit out, and then use the drain plug to let out the excess drippings at intervals you choose, and into a container.
     
  30. Larry Curl

    Larry Curl United States Iron Registered Member

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    From my research, I found that if you want "oil cups" - the flip up lid type, GITS is the only place (or their distributors) to get the real deal. McMaster-Carr sell a similar unit, but they are not genuine GITS.
     

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