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Baldwin shaper from estate sale

Superburban

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#2
oops, triple posted somehow, tried to edit the last two, and lost everything.


Cool purchase.

Its called a planer.

A planer moves the workpiece under the cutting tool. A shaper moves the cutting tool over the workpiece.

I'll dig through my files, and see if I can find anything.
 

tweinke

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#3
Nice find! I would love to see it run. I seem to have developed a liking for shapers and planers as of late........
 

Silverbullet

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#4
My first machine post. I picked up this Baldwin up at an estate of an organ maker, in San Antoino. Not sure where I can find the build date on the casting. Is there a manual on this thing some where?

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I think you'll find its a planer , shapers the cutter travels . On planners the work moves to the cutter.
I thought my federal was small but this is beautiful. If you ever get rid of it contact me please. Try the vintage machinery site . Keith Rucker also has a YouTube channel he might help. Do a search for Baldwin tools or NH Baldwin
 
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westsailpat

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#5
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core-oil

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#6
You have a lovely little machine tool there, And as rare as hens teeth ! As a useful and handy machine tool goes , I put my money on planers , I have a little hand powered planer of the same approx size as your Baldwin , I would not do away with it for the world, By taking care and having your tools sharpened correctly, One can achieve almost precision ground finishes with a planer, do not think you will hogg of metal like the modern milling machines using carbide milling cutters, You are in a different time scale, Your table should plane work about 15 feet per minute , with a maximum depth of cut about a sixteenth of an inch deep, for finishing cuts a broad faced tool and in the case of machining steel , The use of cutting oil and a three thou maximum depth of cut, & a fairly course feed, You achieve a finished workpiece like chrome

Operating a planer seeing the belts flipping from one pulley to the next is mesmerising , when it is operating , For really delicate work, my hand operated machine is "The Bee's Knees"
 

jscottmoss

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#7
I had several offers when I was removing the machine from the premises so I am glad to hear it is rare find.
I will need help determining what kind of motor can be utilized on this machine with out tearing it apart/breaking it. Any thoughts on resources that can help with this?
 

Uglydog

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#8
You had best consider drying off the drool splashed from Minnesota.
I'm looking forward to a video!!

Daryl
MN
 

westsailpat

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#10
Interesting that J's machine was converted to motor power . I wonder if that was hand knitted (as core- oil would say) ?
 

Nogoingback

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#11
I will need help determining what kind of motor can be utilized on this machine with out tearing it apart/breaking it. Any thoughts on resources that can help with this?
How was it powered before you bought it? It looks like the belts go up to a line shaft: was the motor up on the post part of that setup?
You could always buy a steam engine. :)
 
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westsailpat

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#12
If it were me I would convert it back to original , just saying the thing is so cool
 

Silverbullet

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#13
If you could find a period hand wheel about 12" dia. I'd think, from looking at the pictures the belt drive looks added but don't carve it in stone , it may have been an option or upgrade . Still there Kool , if YA want here's my picture of mine . It's federal but it's my pride n joy joy IMG_20171023_190904_855.jpg even tho I haven't touched it yet or cleaned it.
 

jscottmoss

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#14
How was it powered before you bought it? It looks like the belts go up to a line shaft: was the motor up on the post part of that setup?
You could always buy a steam engine. :)
There were belts but no motor. I added the motor, which was found at the same sale. Unopened sears general 1/2 hp electric motor. 1700 rpms..
 

Nogoingback

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#16
One idea is that you could build a new stand for the machine and drop the belts down to a motor "hidden" underneath. That way you
preserve the appearance of the old machine. Someone more knowledgable than I am will have to tell you if 1/2 HP is enough. My guess
is that you might need more. I'm also guessing that 1700 rpm will be too fast and that you'll need to gear it down. Someone around here must
have some experience with line shafts, or if you can figure out how fast the machine should run you could do the math.
 

core-oil

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#17
One idea is that you could build a new stand for the machine and drop the belts down to a motor "hidden" underneath. That way you
preserve the appearance of the old machine. Someone more knowledgable than I am will have to tell you if 1/2 HP is enough. My guess
is that you might need more. I'm also guessing that 1700 rpm will be too fast and that you'll need to gear it down. Someone around here must
have some experience with line shafts, or if you can figure out how fast the machine should run you could do the math.
One idea is that you could build a new stand for the machine and drop the belts down to a motor "hidden" underneath. That way you
preserve the appearance of the old machine. Someone more knowledgable than I am will have to tell you if 1/2 HP is enough. My guess
is that you might need more. I'm also guessing that 1700 rpm will be too fast and that you'll need to gear it down. Someone around here must
have some experience with line shafts, or if you can figure out how fast the machine should run you could do the math.
 

core-oil

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#18
I concur with No going back,to preserve the look of this old machine, It is too much of a very useful historical machine tool to alter, + being most useful, What I would do is rig up a gallows just behind the machine, having the countershaft pulley behind & above the three machine pulleys, your Baldwin looks to be a two belt machine, One belt" Open Belt " drives the table intowards the back of the machine, on the cutting stroke, i e, work proceeding towards the tool, The other belt the "Crossed Belt or Return Belt" having a twist set in it drives the table on the return stroke Out towards the front of the machine

If this little machine is confgured as I say, the two outer pulleys will be idlers on the shaft, & the inside pulley keyed, Thus doing the work, The belts parked & running on the outside pulleys when not cutting , but one of them engaged on the inner pulley depending on table direction when working, I would imagine from past experience, when I used to operate a much bigger machine equally ancient but similar ? design the speed of your pulleys should be about 80 revs /minute , But do a gear tooth count , Firstly call the gear on your belt pulley the first motion gear , The next count the teeth, second motion gear, & so on till you come to the little gear that drives the rack , usually it is configured as 1/1 ratio, Let me know the teeth count on each gear, Also move or turn the driving pulley by hand to see what direction the table moves, Usually the wheel moves towards the frontof the machine in rotation, The one thing to be carefully observed is that the belt forks push on the belts on the leading side of the belts ( The side which enters the pulley or pulling side)

I believe your 1/2 horse power motor should be strong enough, I will see if I can dredge up any further info.


,
 

Tinkertoy1941

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#19
Your planer looks a lot like this on

e 100_0828.JPG
Your Planer looks a lot like this one, according to Cope in "American Planer, Shaper and Slotters Builders" book this slotter was hand powered. The length of stroke was 20 inches. The one pictured above was a 40 inches and they were both possibly built around 1868 to 1874.
By 1874 they started making larger one that could be purchased with hand or belt power.
 

jscottmoss

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#21
Thank you so much guys! Great info. I'll do a tooth gear count tonight. Any other important measurements that might be needed?
 

core-oil

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#23
Thank you so much guys! Great info. I'll do a tooth gear count tonight. Any other important measurements that might be needed?
JScott,
I forgot most important (Silly Me) Take off the front stop on the table stop mechanism, , Wind the table back till you can see the pinion which drives it, This will mean pushing table slightly beyond the little internal pinion, Make sure the table rear end is supported underneath, In case it falls off machine A block of wood or similar under it Temporary
Next using callipers or vernier measure diameter of pinion, over gear teeth & do a tooth count also, Oil up and carefully pull table forward turning gear to carefully re-engage with the rack teeth, These measurements are most important

Put table stop back on.
 

jscottmoss

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#24
JScott,
I forgot most important (Silly Me) Take off the front stop on the table stop mechanism, , Wind the table back till you can see the pinion which drives it, This will mean pushing table slightly beyond the little internal pinion, Make sure the table rear end is supported underneath, In case it falls off machine A block of wood or similar under it Temporary
Next using callipers or vernier measure diameter of pinion, over gear teeth & do a tooth count also, Oil up and carefully pull table forward turning gear to carefully re-engage with the rack teeth, These measurements are most important

Put table stop back on.
Gear under the Rack is 2.498 inches and has 17 tooth count.
The outside gear on the same connection is a 58 tooth gear.
48 tooth gear with at smaller 28 tooth gear.
12 tooth gear on the shaft (which connects to the 1/4th gears on the other side that moves the tool)
The 58 tooth gear uses the 28 tooth gear to spin the 48 tooth gear which spins the shaft gear which is 12 tooth shaft gear.
Clear as mud right?
 

core-oil

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#25
Gear under the Rack is 2.498 inches and has 17 tooth count.
The outside gear on the same connection is a 58 tooth gear.
48 tooth gear with at smaller 28 tooth gear.
12 tooth gear on the shaft (which connects to the 1/4th gears on the other side that moves the tool)
The 58 tooth gear uses the 28 tooth gear to spin the 48 tooth gear which spins the shaft gear which is 12 tooth shaft gear.
Clear as mud right?
Jscott No you are not as clear as mud, I can follow your data, to help me help you could you try this to check definitively the gear & rack under the table, Firstly with the table fairly well back, Run a broad chalk line along the top of the table (About 1" broad, Wind the table forward slightly by hand to get rid of any slack motion
Make another chalk mark on the outside of the rim on the big 58 tooth gear, & from the table top your little machine sits on, Take a set square & pencil mark a line vertically on the face of the gear rim (Keep you square on its position accurately do not move it)
Go back up to your machiine table area and clamp a nice straight piece of wood say 1&1/2" broad to the cross rail on your machine, (The face the tool slide moves on, Have you portion of wood square to the machine table (Above your broad chalk line) Next, Pencil a line across in front of the portion of wood. Now go back to your 58 tooth gear wind it forward by hand by using the appropiate drive belt pulley, till the vertical line on the 58 tooth gear comes round to its original position in front of the set square, Then pencil another cross line on your machine planer table Measure the distance between the two lines and you have the table travel distance for one revolution of the rack gear.

That is an important measurement , From it it is a simple? matter to work out the cutting speed in feet /minute As you have a small ancient machine like mine, it will operate slower than the powerful brute I once operated, But slow and steady still wins with a good result
 
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