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Atmos Bellows Work?

Tony Wells

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#31
I did some reading on Atmos timepieces. Fascinating and very brilliant thinking behind the design. In particular, it is the EC that makes it work. It has a very high thermal rate of expansion and even a one degree temperature change is enough to exert enough force on the spring to wind it to run a day. So even in a basement, all you would have to do is light a candle where the warmth would hit the bellows and change the temperature even a small amount. There have been other similar designs with mercury as the expansion agent (as I shall call it) but apparently the EC is superior. Whatever is used must exhibit the expansion/contraction properties at normal ambient temperatures. That's probably why EC works. I would not rule out another substance as a substitute, but research would be required. And it's not as though you would need to set the movement out in the sun to "wind" it. If it were sitting on a fireplace mantel, or a small table near a window, I'd think there would be more than enough differential over a period short enough to keep it running.

Now I want one! lol

I'll make a couple of phone calls tomorrow to some people I know to see if there is a way I can get my hands on some. Slim chance, but I won't know without asking.
 

chips&more

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#33
I would not put an Atmos on a small table near a window. The Atmos will stop running if not placed on a FIRM foundation. It really doesn’t like any movement at all. And putting an Atmos into the direct line of sight of the sun (or over/near a heater register or the like) causing an excessive rise in clock temperature is hard on the bellows and its solder joints. Yes, they are a very unique clock/time piece but it comes with knowing how to enjoy them…Dave.
 

tq60

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#35
We received one of the 2 different batches of EC of unknown certainty.

No time to play until weekend and other is due on the 14th but not holding our breath.

Plan on testing it via temperature control to see if it has no spray pressure in freezer first then fridge.

Will assume if it has no spray pressure below the 50 or degrees that it is valid.

Will confirm correct temp before test...no need for this post.

Since it is not in the screw top jar we will need to determine how to transfer from spray can to syringe.

Plan for today is to pick up a couple from the vet supply then make a cooler from some CRS round stock for the syringe to fit inside so it can cool and condense the gas.

Heat transfer will be slow but we will see how it goes.

Photos will come later.

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Tony Wells

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#36
I did make some inquiries at the hospital that I contract with, and they (the biomedical technologies dept) told me they did not use it at all in the hospital here, as far as they knew. So strike that as a possible source.

There should be some numbers on the spray that you could research to see if it is pure, or also contains some inert gas as a propellant. I would strongly suspect so. Even so, if you chill it well below the bp, you should be able to pierce the can above the fluid level and vent the propellant gas, then simply pour it off. If you use a chilled container, your evap losses should be minimal. Cap and store in the freezer. A proper reagent bottle should suffice, with ground glass stopper.
 

tq60

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#37
Our research indicates EC is a common propellant as it has a fairly high bp so less pressure to contain on hot days.

Common medical uses as DME is as a spot cooler to numb skin prior to iv use or to cool a boo-boo.

Personal doctor is a group setting so cannot do much but advised they sometimes use the stuff but could not sell any.

Distributors only sell to doctors who could request shipping elsewhere but that mucks it up.

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tq60

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#38
Well the second batch of EC got kicked as expected via Amazon asia...

The other stuff we tested by freezing so it should not have any pressure from the spray can but they had a tiny bit...can states it is EC so what the heck.

We first made a sleeve to hold the syringe to help keep it cold and it came out very well.

We snuck up on size and it is a press fit so the does not come out.

Made a view port before drilling and bore so it came out better than expected.

20161218_112234.jpg
c8c96973a0ce8300e0b804795553c7b7.jpg 4151ce71fd41cff8e4496d43b54ad9fe.jpg

We then made a plug with a chunk of #12 wire and tinned it.
1339e9038701b17e97d4c5e5e7491b26.jpg ae9d6d6ca488959b8477c8c86e4f4dd4.jpg

Modified the spray nozzle to attach a hose
2a078f4e78e04a63a46f0b131779e858.jpg

Tight fit
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161219/bcdfa1d43c1562286b14a81096e2749b.jpg[/IMG

Filled and plug soldered and SUCCESS!

The bellows has range from 1.3 inches with ice cube or just compressed air blowing out the housing to 0.86 with just breathing into it.
[ATTACH=full]186740[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]186741[/ATTACH]

The next process is to replace t he broken chain and clean the main spring.

We will make a puller for the hand and some other tools but that will be another day.

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Tony Wells

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#39
Sounds good. I found a web page by a Mike someone (I'm sure you know who) that has a bit of information, and he seems to specialize in Atmos movements, and oddly says and nearly any electric plug in clock. Seems to been at this a while and is a published author. According to his page, he doesn't do the actual bellows service, but sends it out to another individual. Prices seem a bit high, so either he is very, very good at it, there aren't many who do it at all, or has plenty to do. Or maybe is just getting tired of doing it. I figure him to be up in age (just a hunch), so maybe be is in a take it or leave it mode. Definitely a little bit diva, although within his rights to handle payments any way he wants, but is definite about how he will not do it.

Do your expansion/contraction numbers fall into spec? I think he gave them on a data page for checking bellows.

What is the market like on finding parts clocks? Or is there even one. It sure would be nice to have a set of working drawings for one. It would make a fantastic project.
 

tq60

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#40
Folks "part them out" on ebay.

They are not serviced by too many folks so prices reflect that.

There is a guy who fills bellows for a reasonable price but does not indicate if repairs are attempted and knowing a repair would be needed is part of reason we started this plus we are cheap...Having 3 to do would be maybe $200.00 or so after shipping and risk of damage or loss in the mail was more incentive to look into it.

Our range of operation matches the data on the Web so we are comfortable with it for now.
The video was the tipping point as it seemed easy enough done sloppy...

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Tony Wells

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#41
Glad you seem to have achieved success. I believe you invested the proper time and effort to make a best effort and it seems to have paid off. In reality, the whole process should be pretty basic, considering when it was done with the first units built. We have far more resources and materials at our disposal now than they had then.
 

TomVil

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#42
We have a couple that need to be refilled but having difficult time finding ethyl chloride.

It seems it once was a common item for spot cooling skin for pain relief be to relatively warm boiling point it was safe until folks started sniffing it to get stoned.

It seems it is available via medical supply but need to be in that line.

Anyone here have access to that stuff

Comes in spray cans to canisters.

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I bought a couple of pressurized bottles from Amazon more than once just for refilling Atmos bellows. It is sold for sunburn pain relief there too, I believe.
 

tq60

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#43
Stuff on amazon is all off shore and they get stopped by post office and sent back to sender.



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Nick Hacking

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#44
I don't know if this helps. I see that this thread is a little old now...

Ethyl Chloride is highly volatile (which is why, I presume, they put it into these atmospheric bellows). It's used in the developing world as an inhalational anaesthetic but it's not without its problems - it can cause funny heart rhythms and organ damage and is highly flammable. In the UK and the USA this is an obsolete application for it.

However, you may find a friendly anaesthetist (anaesthesiologist) who can get some for you. Over here in the UK we use it for testing loss of temperature sense. Briefly, it works like this: being volatile, when dropped on the skin, it evaporates radidly taking in latent heat of vaporization and so cooling down the skin. Now, the nerve fibres that carry temperature sensation are the same type as those that carry pain. If an anaesthetist wants to test his block, he drops ethyl chloride on to his patient's skin: if the patient says that it feels wet, but not cold, that's a fair indication that the nerve block is going to prevent pain.

You may also find it in A&E (ED) where it is used for cryoanalgesia - freezing the skin by applying a succession of drops, allowing each one to evaporate. This isn't much used these days.

If you have ever spilled liquid butane on your hand and watched it boil: that's pretty much how ethyl chloride behaves. Over here it comes in little glass bottles with a spring loaded metal cap over the dropper. I cannot imagine many airlines being happy if they found one in your luggage. It might be easier and safer to apply for a special use licence if that's what your local regulations require. Over on this side of the Atlantic, I think we can buy it without restriction.

Kind wishes,

Nick
 

Nick Hacking

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#45
By the way, I saw one of these atmospheric clocks about thirty years ago: a senior doctor was retiring and his colleagues bought it for him as a retirement gift. I was seriously impressed but rather put off by the cost: £750 - so Heaven only knows what they cost now.

Needless to say, the mechanism has to be as near friction-free as possible in order for the bellows to put enough energy in to the spring to keep it running perpetually. It is a really elegant idea and the one that I saw was a thing of beauty. Maybe when I retire....

Nick
 
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