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Atlas/Craftsman Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

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dgehricke

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#61
Robert,
I thought I included the bed length, another senior moment, anyway the length is 42" 3/8" Thick ways
I am a member of the yahoo group but since they changed the web site I hardly go to it.
Finally a machine tool that I own that is older then me.
Thanks
Wally G
dgehricke
 

MBuechle

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#62
Robert,

I have pix of data plate & bearings. Perhaps the S/N starts with an 'O' and not a zero?

IMG_3582.jpg IMG_3581.jpg
 

dwl324

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#63
I hadn't previously noticed it probably because looking back I see that almost all age related questions the past year have been for 12". In the combined machine database (408 entries to date) there are only 74 10" entries, a third of which show no serial numbers. And there is a large jump or blank range in the 10" serial numbers. They meander up to a little over 8000 and then skip to over 17000. Plus we only have three supposed bearing dates, one of which does not track with the other two. Meaning that it is about 13000 smaller than one with almost the same date.

Anyway, anyone with a 10" who doesn't remember for sure entering your machine into the old Yahoo database or giving it to me recently, please send me the model number (which includes bed length), serial number (including any prefix or suffix letters), type (10F, 10D, etc.), and if it has Timken bearings, the bearing dates if you know them. If no bearing dates, then anything that would give the original purchase date (no guesses, please).

Thanks, Robert D.
 

wa5cab

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#64
Wally, thanks.

Mark, no, it's definitely a zero. This isn't the first example we have of a higher serial number with earlier dates than some other machines. Our (Atlas lathe owners) practice of basing machine date on bearing inspection dates is after all the mercy of Atlas very strictly adhering to a FIFO (First In First Out) inventory practice. We already know that they only usually did this because we have at least one example where the two bearing dates are nearly a year apart. So all that we can really prove is that no lathe was ever built before Atlas received its spindle bearings. :cpa:
 

Monte

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#65
Craftsman 101.07402 - 12x24 - 42" bed. sn# 1380 S. Unfortunately there are no dates etched on either spindle bearing. I believe this to be the "deluxe" model shown in the 1938 & 39 sears catalog. I has 5/8" lead screw, One piece saddle & apron, no power crossfeed, oval switch plate, & tailstock with oil dipper. I agree with you Robert D. on linked belts. I personally don't care for them in most applications, besides it's not that big of a deal to pull the spindle/ back gear & countershaft to replace the belt on this lathe. It all had to come apart for cleaning & paint anyway. Considering the age of the existing belts It shouldn't be necessary to ever replace a new one. Thanks for the info & advice,
Monte
 

wa5cab

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#66
Monte,

It is probably the one shown in the 1939 catalog. Although it is difficult to know for certain. The 1940 catalog clearly shows the 101.07403. So for want of better information I have arbitrarily set the years as:

1937 101.07400
1938 101.07401
1939 101.07402
1940 101.07403

However, there is one maybe discrepancy. The "non-Deluxe" lathe (probably the 101.07382) in the 1939 catalog shows threading capability of 4 to 80 tpi. And the writeup on the Deluxe page says "includes all... plus ...", meaning that the supposed 101.07402 also cuts 4 to 80 tpi. That happens to mean (from other sources well verified) that the change gear set includes two 96T (96 teeth) gears, among other things. All subsequent models cut 4 to 96 tpi, which means the 64T A-suffix change gear set. You are quite fortunate that your machine still has its nameplate, as probably 75% of the early and 50% of the later models don't. Look at the gears that are actually on the lathe. If one or two of them are 96T, your machine originally came with the early change gear set, which does not agree with the "official" parts list at SearsDirect.com but does agree with the 1939 catalog. If none of the gears present are 96T, remove one and measure the thickness of the hub. If it is 3/8" (same as the tooth face width), that is an early gear. If the hub is 1/2" wide/thick, that is a late A-suffix gear, and all of the gears that originally came with the machine will be the same.

Note also that during this period, the Sears Power Tools catalogs were most likely printed late in the previous year. So your machine could have actually been made late in 1938. It is unfortunate that the spindle bearings have no dates. That probably means that they were replaced at some point as no date present is rare.

Anyway, when you have time, please tell us what you found with the gears.
 

sirpalman

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#69
I have a Craftsman 101.0704 I got last year at a garage sale. 12 x 24 42 bed. Obrien quick change, lots of tooling, very little wear. Completely restored now, paint,vfd with inverter duty motor,tach and pushbutton control.
 

sirpalman

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#70
I have a Craftsman 101.0704 I got last year at a garage sale. 12 x 24 42 bed. Obrien quick change, lots of tooling, very little wear. Completely restored now, paint,vfd with inverter duty motor,tach and pushbutton control.
Completlly restored except for bearings. I have the bearings and races out, dates are 7-20-45, 7-25-45, and 7-30-45. Serial no. 13931 S. I can not find reasonbly priced class 3 bearings and races. Has anyone used automotive grade with good results? Thanks Jeff
 

wa5cab

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#71
Jeff,

First, your model number is 101.07403, not 0704. Thanks for the serial number and dates. Where did you find the third date? They don't usually have but two.

The allowable runout of a Class 2 bearing cup and bearing cone is .0015", which is additive so the total allowable runout of the two together is .0030". That being said, it doesn't have to be that bad. It just depends upon whether Timken had already met their daily quota for Class 3 that day or not. But you can't count on it. And buying two sets of Class 2 intending to use the best combination doesn't guarantee you will be any better off. However, I would guess that most of the people who have put new bearings into their Atlas lathes have bought the cheapest thing that they could find. But I never heard anyone report their actual results. So ye pays yer money an ye takes yer chances. The original bearings usually last a long time. Unless there is something that you know is wrong with them, I would put the originals back in, set them up properly per the TB, and see what you get. If the runout is excessive, I would bite the bullet and buy Class 3 and be done with it for my lifetime.

And don't forget that you need to rotate the spindle several times in the same direction. Put the lathe in back gear and on the slowest belt positions and run it for a while with the indicator on the register.

That all being said, I bought a set of what I am sure now are Class 2 or even 4 several years ago before I knew that there was a difference. When I pull my spindle later this year to replace the spindle belts, I am going to install the new bearings and see what I get. I'll report here when I do. But it is going to be several more months at least.
 

sirpalman

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#72
Robert D, 14276B and 14125A were 7-30-45, 16284b was 7-25-45, and 16550 was 7-20-45. The
small cone and race look ok. but the
big race is not smooth[ shiney] and the bearing has some lines on the rollers. The right was filthy. I was getting .007 pushing hard on a test bar but was getting good light cuts. there was a clicking noise on the right bearing and then when flooded with oil it went away. Maybe I will just buy Class 2 for the right side . Thanks Jeff​
 

wa5cab

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#73
OK. Thanks for the explanation of the dates.

Do you still have the clicking noise after you removed the spindle and thoroughly cleaned the various parts.
 

sirpalman

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#74
Its still apart.Ive been looking for hours for a 16284b#3 on line. Nobody has one, minimum time to order is 30 to 40 days. Amazon has a 16150#3 for $281. Maybe I will try your idea an clean and put back together and play around with bearing load before ordering standard bearings.
 

wa5cab

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#75
Well, that is pretty steep for half of a bearing. If it was only a matter of 30 to 50% differential, that would be one thing. But the one that you have a price on is about double a good price for a full set of Class 2. It will only take a little time to reinstall the spindle and see whether or not the noise goes away, and if it does what the runout is. As I said before before without knowing what a set of Class 3's might cost, I think it's worth spending the time.Just remember that with proper bearing preload, there should be no radial movement with moderate side load. And no end float.
 

George63

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#76
Hello there;
I own an Atlas 10" swing Model: QC42 Serial N: 1007 Bought it in Laredo TX. about 20 years ago from the son of original ownwer, but he only gave me the
Lathe owner's manual, no other papers.
Would like to know the aprox manufacture date. (have not taken out the spindle so I don't know the dates on bearings).
Just so you can anotate on your records on the where abouts of the machines, the lathe now "lives" in Mexico.
 

wa5cab

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#77
George,

We have about a dozen QC42 or QC54 in the database. And not a single one with a bearing date. We do have one report of a QC model found with its original shipping Document dated January 1948. We can conclude from the year on the first Atlas catalog to show the Quick Change models that the first ones were made in 1947. And we can conclude from the numbers in the small pool compared to the numbers on THnn models made around the same time that unlike with all of the preceding 10" model changes, Atlas started over at 000001 with the serial numbers on the QC. What we don't have is enough information to really guess at production rate or total production.

However, with what little we do know, I would guess at some time in 1948 for the birthday of your machine.
 

George63

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#78
George,

We have about a dozen QC42 or QC54 in the database. And not a single one with a bearing date. We do have one report of a QC model found with its original shipping Document dated January 1948. We can conclude from the year on the first Atlas catalog to show the Quick Change models that the first ones were made in 1947. And we can conclude from the numbers in the small pool compared to the numbers on THnn models made around the same time that unlike with all of the preceding 10" model changes, Atlas started over at 000001 with the serial numbers on the QC. What we don't have is enough information to really guess at production rate or total production.

However, with what little we do know, I would guess at some time in 1948 for the birthday of your machine.
Thank's a lot for the info. If I ever get to remove the spindle I´ll send you the dates on the bearings.

Gracias, saludos desde Mexico.
George.
 

timmeh

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#80
10F V42, ser# V196668. Only other identification is a brass plaque on the change gear cover with the following,


AGI 1946

6203


All painted components appear to be original, nothing that was broken was replaced.
Being about as far from home as the little beasty can get, thats not surprising.
So on that basis i'm assuming that aside from normal wear and tear, that is how it left
the factory.

Image0236.jpg Image0232.jpg
 
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wa5cab

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#81
Tim,

The brass plate on the change gear cover is most likely something added by the local owner. Certainly not something that Atlas put on it.
On the serial number, the "V" is OK. We've had reported a few with either "V" or "H" in that position. They apparently stand for either Vertical or Horizontal, and refer to the countershaft assembly type. One of your photos shows a vertical countershaft, so that is all right. But the serial number has too many digits. The highest known 10" serial number is under 90000. The year that the 10" production ceased, the 12" Commercial begain production at Serial Number 100000. Most likely, the final character, which you show as the numeral "8" is actually the letter "S". There are many reported examples of this up to serial # 20318. All such are babbit bearing models, so one theory is that it stood for "Standard". The only Timken model that we have in that range does not have the "S".

So please recheck the serial number.
 

timmeh

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#82
Will do, had thought it was an "S" originally, closer inspection seemed to indicate "8".
Hard to see the serial#, very light stamping and discolouration. Tried blocking with fine
wet/dry emery and oil, didn't go too far for fear of losing it alltogether. Time to have
another look.
 

timmeh

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#83
10F V42, ser# V196668. Only other identification is a brass plaque on the change gear cover with the following,


AGI 1946

6203


All painted components appear to be original, nothing that was broken was replaced.
Being about as far from home as the little beasty can get, thats not surprising.
So on that basis i'm assuming that aside from normal wear and tear, that is how it left
the factory.
Confirmed, Ser# is V19666S. Just needed correct lighting angle, suitable amount of squint through sufficient magnification and tongue clamped firmly in the right position!
 

wa5cab

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#84
OK. Thanks. Rough estimate is that it was made early 1940. If you want to add any more to the record (acquisition cost, where/when/how acquired, accessories, condition, etc.) let me know.
 

CluelessNewB

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#85
My MFC Mill has a serial number 011604 I don't know much about it. It did come with a letter from a previous owner requesting a manual from Atlas dated 12/28/1962 and the Atlas reply with letter stating that manufacture of that machine was discontinued "several years ago" and a list of parts still available dated 11/1/1962.
 

wa5cab

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#86
I assume that you meant that the letter was dated 12/28/62, not the manual that he was looking for. The mills were discontinued around late 1959. The last Sears catalog that the mill and shaper appeared in was 1959.
 

cdhknives

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#88
Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

I have a range of catalogs with my lathe but the oldest is 1941 so I've concluded it's age is thereabout. No idea on bearing date, no call to disassemble the headstock to date (thankfully!). Roller bearings, 10F w/horizontal countershaft.

QC-54
003825
Final vote:

Assembled in 1948.

20150602_221724_zpsrsovfwrd.jpg
 

'Topcraft

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#90
Hey Robert, I decided to bring our conversation over here. The serial number on my lathe is - D2373s - . It is a 10x36, babbit bearing headstock, old style tool post slide, (not the type with the dovetail post). Someone in the past painted the inside of the bed "machine red" and he rubbed it into the serial#, I don't know if it came from the factory like that but I think it looks pretty cool. It has the normal benchtop style legs, I believe it's vertical shaft, and it is a change gear. It was love at first sight (sigh). Bringing it home made me feel like I was cheating on my wife (LOL). Whoever had this lathe before me had respect for machines. Now it's my turn. Any info I can get on it, I would be grateful. At this point I only assume it's a 1936 10D. there is a plate on the feed direction housing that I believe reads atlas press co, but I would have to double check that. I will try to take some pics in the afternoon tomorrow.
 
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