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Atlas/Craftsman Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Discussion in 'ATLAS, CRAFTSMAN & AA' started by wa5cab, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. dgehricke

    dgehricke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Robert,
    I thought I included the bed length, another senior moment, anyway the length is 42" 3/8" Thick ways
    I am a member of the yahoo group but since they changed the web site I hardly go to it.
    Finally a machine tool that I own that is older then me.
    Thanks
    Wally G
    dgehricke
     
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  2. MBuechle

    MBuechle United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Robert,

    I have pix of data plate & bearings. Perhaps the S/N starts with an 'O' and not a zero?

    IMG_3582.jpg IMG_3581.jpg
     
  3. dwl324

    dwl324 United States Swarf Registered Member

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  4. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Wally, thanks.

    Mark, no, it's definitely a zero. This isn't the first example we have of a higher serial number with earlier dates than some other machines. Our (Atlas lathe owners) practice of basing machine date on bearing inspection dates is after all the mercy of Atlas very strictly adhering to a FIFO (First In First Out) inventory practice. We already know that they only usually did this because we have at least one example where the two bearing dates are nearly a year apart. So all that we can really prove is that no lathe was ever built before Atlas received its spindle bearings. :cpa:
     
  5. Monte

    Monte United States Iron Registered Member

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    Craftsman 101.07402 - 12x24 - 42" bed. sn# 1380 S. Unfortunately there are no dates etched on either spindle bearing. I believe this to be the "deluxe" model shown in the 1938 & 39 sears catalog. I has 5/8" lead screw, One piece saddle & apron, no power crossfeed, oval switch plate, & tailstock with oil dipper. I agree with you Robert D. on linked belts. I personally don't care for them in most applications, besides it's not that big of a deal to pull the spindle/ back gear & countershaft to replace the belt on this lathe. It all had to come apart for cleaning & paint anyway. Considering the age of the existing belts It shouldn't be necessary to ever replace a new one. Thanks for the info & advice,
    Monte
     
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  6. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Monte,

    It is probably the one shown in the 1939 catalog. Although it is difficult to know for certain. The 1940 catalog clearly shows the 101.07403. So for want of better information I have arbitrarily set the years as:

    1937 101.07400
    1938 101.07401
    1939 101.07402
    1940 101.07403

    However, there is one maybe discrepancy. The "non-Deluxe" lathe (probably the 101.07382) in the 1939 catalog shows threading capability of 4 to 80 tpi. And the writeup on the Deluxe page says "includes all... plus ...", meaning that the supposed 101.07402 also cuts 4 to 80 tpi. That happens to mean (from other sources well verified) that the change gear set includes two 96T (96 teeth) gears, among other things. All subsequent models cut 4 to 96 tpi, which means the 64T A-suffix change gear set. You are quite fortunate that your machine still has its nameplate, as probably 75% of the early and 50% of the later models don't. Look at the gears that are actually on the lathe. If one or two of them are 96T, your machine originally came with the early change gear set, which does not agree with the "official" parts list at SearsDirect.com but does agree with the 1939 catalog. If none of the gears present are 96T, remove one and measure the thickness of the hub. If it is 3/8" (same as the tooth face width), that is an early gear. If the hub is 1/2" wide/thick, that is a late A-suffix gear, and all of the gears that originally came with the machine will be the same.

    Note also that during this period, the Sears Power Tools catalogs were most likely printed late in the previous year. So your machine could have actually been made late in 1938. It is unfortunate that the spindle bearings have no dates. That probably means that they were replaced at some point as no date present is rare.

    Anyway, when you have time, please tell us what you found with the gears.
     
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  7. VSAncona

    VSAncona Active User Active Member

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    Atlas TH42 with Pick-o-Matic gearbox. Serial #067647. Bearing dates are 4-18-46 and 5-20-46.
     
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  8. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks.
     
  9. sirpalman

    sirpalman United States Iron Registered Member

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    I have a Craftsman 101.0704 I got last year at a garage sale. 12 x 24 42 bed. Obrien quick change, lots of tooling, very little wear. Completely restored now, paint,vfd with inverter duty motor,tach and pushbutton control.
     
  10. sirpalman

    sirpalman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Completlly restored except for bearings. I have the bearings and races out, dates are 7-20-45, 7-25-45, and 7-30-45. Serial no. 13931 S. I can not find reasonbly priced class 3 bearings and races. Has anyone used automotive grade with good results? Thanks Jeff
     
  11. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Jeff,

    First, your model number is 101.07403, not 0704. Thanks for the serial number and dates. Where did you find the third date? They don't usually have but two.

    The allowable runout of a Class 2 bearing cup and bearing cone is .0015", which is additive so the total allowable runout of the two together is .0030". That being said, it doesn't have to be that bad. It just depends upon whether Timken had already met their daily quota for Class 3 that day or not. But you can't count on it. And buying two sets of Class 2 intending to use the best combination doesn't guarantee you will be any better off. However, I would guess that most of the people who have put new bearings into their Atlas lathes have bought the cheapest thing that they could find. But I never heard anyone report their actual results. So ye pays yer money an ye takes yer chances. The original bearings usually last a long time. Unless there is something that you know is wrong with them, I would put the originals back in, set them up properly per the TB, and see what you get. If the runout is excessive, I would bite the bullet and buy Class 3 and be done with it for my lifetime.

    And don't forget that you need to rotate the spindle several times in the same direction. Put the lathe in back gear and on the slowest belt positions and run it for a while with the indicator on the register.

    That all being said, I bought a set of what I am sure now are Class 2 or even 4 several years ago before I knew that there was a difference. When I pull my spindle later this year to replace the spindle belts, I am going to install the new bearings and see what I get. I'll report here when I do. But it is going to be several more months at least.
     
  12. sirpalman

    sirpalman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Robert D, 14276B and 14125A were 7-30-45, 16284b was 7-25-45, and 16550 was 7-20-45. The
    small cone and race look ok. but the
    big race is not smooth[ shiney] and the bearing has some lines on the rollers. The right was filthy. I was getting .007 pushing hard on a test bar but was getting good light cuts. there was a clicking noise on the right bearing and then when flooded with oil it went away. Maybe I will just buy Class 2 for the right side . Thanks Jeff​
     
  13. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    OK. Thanks for the explanation of the dates.

    Do you still have the clicking noise after you removed the spindle and thoroughly cleaned the various parts.
     
  14. sirpalman

    sirpalman United States Iron Registered Member

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    Its still apart.Ive been looking for hours for a 16284b#3 on line. Nobody has one, minimum time to order is 30 to 40 days. Amazon has a 16150#3 for $281. Maybe I will try your idea an clean and put back together and play around with bearing load before ordering standard bearings.
     
  15. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Well, that is pretty steep for half of a bearing. If it was only a matter of 30 to 50% differential, that would be one thing. But the one that you have a price on is about double a good price for a full set of Class 2. It will only take a little time to reinstall the spindle and see whether or not the noise goes away, and if it does what the runout is. As I said before before without knowing what a set of Class 3's might cost, I think it's worth spending the time.Just remember that with proper bearing preload, there should be no radial movement with moderate side load. And no end float.
     
  16. George63

    George63 Mexico Swarf Registered Member

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    Hello there;
    I own an Atlas 10" swing Model: QC42 Serial N: 1007 Bought it in Laredo TX. about 20 years ago from the son of original ownwer, but he only gave me the
    Lathe owner's manual, no other papers.
    Would like to know the aprox manufacture date. (have not taken out the spindle so I don't know the dates on bearings).
    Just so you can anotate on your records on the where abouts of the machines, the lathe now "lives" in Mexico.
     
  17. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    George,

    We have about a dozen QC42 or QC54 in the database. And not a single one with a bearing date. We do have one report of a QC model found with its original shipping Document dated January 1948. We can conclude from the year on the first Atlas catalog to show the Quick Change models that the first ones were made in 1947. And we can conclude from the numbers in the small pool compared to the numbers on THnn models made around the same time that unlike with all of the preceding 10" model changes, Atlas started over at 000001 with the serial numbers on the QC. What we don't have is enough information to really guess at production rate or total production.

    However, with what little we do know, I would guess at some time in 1948 for the birthday of your machine.
     
  18. George63

    George63 Mexico Swarf Registered Member

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    Thank's a lot for the info. If I ever get to remove the spindle I´ll send you the dates on the bearings.

    Gracias, saludos desde Mexico.
    George.
     
  19. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You're welcome.
     
  20. timmeh

    timmeh Australia isdownthashed. Active Member

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    10F V42, ser# V196668. Only other identification is a brass plaque on the change gear cover with the following,


    AGI 1946

    6203


    All painted components appear to be original, nothing that was broken was replaced.
    Being about as far from home as the little beasty can get, thats not surprising.
    So on that basis i'm assuming that aside from normal wear and tear, that is how it left
    the factory.

    Image0236.jpg Image0232.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
  21. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Tim,

    The brass plate on the change gear cover is most likely something added by the local owner. Certainly not something that Atlas put on it.
    On the serial number, the "V" is OK. We've had reported a few with either "V" or "H" in that position. They apparently stand for either Vertical or Horizontal, and refer to the countershaft assembly type. One of your photos shows a vertical countershaft, so that is all right. But the serial number has too many digits. The highest known 10" serial number is under 90000. The year that the 10" production ceased, the 12" Commercial begain production at Serial Number 100000. Most likely, the final character, which you show as the numeral "8" is actually the letter "S". There are many reported examples of this up to serial # 20318. All such are babbit bearing models, so one theory is that it stood for "Standard". The only Timken model that we have in that range does not have the "S".

    So please recheck the serial number.
     
  22. timmeh

    timmeh Australia isdownthashed. Active Member

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    Will do, had thought it was an "S" originally, closer inspection seemed to indicate "8".
    Hard to see the serial#, very light stamping and discolouration. Tried blocking with fine
    wet/dry emery and oil, didn't go too far for fear of losing it alltogether. Time to have
    another look.
     
  23. timmeh

    timmeh Australia isdownthashed. Active Member

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    Confirmed, Ser# is V19666S. Just needed correct lighting angle, suitable amount of squint through sufficient magnification and tongue clamped firmly in the right position!
     
  24. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    OK. Thanks. Rough estimate is that it was made early 1940. If you want to add any more to the record (acquisition cost, where/when/how acquired, accessories, condition, etc.) let me know.
     
  25. CluelessNewB

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    My MFC Mill has a serial number 011604 I don't know much about it. It did come with a letter from a previous owner requesting a manual from Atlas dated 12/28/1962 and the Atlas reply with letter stating that manufacture of that machine was discontinued "several years ago" and a list of parts still available dated 11/1/1962.
     
  26. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I assume that you meant that the letter was dated 12/28/62, not the manual that he was looking for. The mills were discontinued around late 1959. The last Sears catalog that the mill and shaper appeared in was 1959.
     
  27. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yes, the letter from a previous owner was dated 12/28/62.
     
  28. cdhknives

    cdhknives Active User Active Member

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    Final vote:

    Assembled in 1948.

    20150602_221724_zpsrsovfwrd.jpg
     
  29. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks.
     
  30. 'Topcraft

    'Topcraft Active Member Active Member

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    Hey Robert, I decided to bring our conversation over here. The serial number on my lathe is - D2373s - . It is a 10x36, babbit bearing headstock, old style tool post slide, (not the type with the dovetail post). Someone in the past painted the inside of the bed "machine red" and he rubbed it into the serial#, I don't know if it came from the factory like that but I think it looks pretty cool. It has the normal benchtop style legs, I believe it's vertical shaft, and it is a change gear. It was love at first sight (sigh). Bringing it home made me feel like I was cheating on my wife (LOL). Whoever had this lathe before me had respect for machines. Now it's my turn. Any info I can get on it, I would be grateful. At this point I only assume it's a 1936 10D. there is a plate on the feed direction housing that I believe reads atlas press co, but I would have to double check that. I will try to take some pics in the afternoon tomorrow.
     

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