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Anybody Need Iso 460 Gear Lube For A Burke Mill Master Motor.

Discussion in 'BURKE-US MACHINE TOOL & BARKER MACHINES' started by Glenn Brooks, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hello all,

    Does anyone need ISO 460 (AGMA grade 7) gear lube for your Burke #4 milling machine gear box motor??

    The primary brand name mentioned in the Masters engine manual for this style gear box is:

    Mobil SCH 634 - a 140 wt synthetic gear box lube

    This isn't available locally, and the petroleum suppliers only carry 5 gallon buckets or 55 gal drums. So I plan on buying a bucket of Chevron ISO 460 gear lube for my Burke #4 Master gear box motor. It takes about two quarts to change the oil, and I plan on keeping an additional 2 quarts in reserve. So I need maybe 1 gallon max for the rest of my life (1500 hrs service interval between oil changes). Seems like a waste to store the remaining 4 gallons for ever. So I could pass on the remaining 4 gallons (or individual quarts) to other Burke owners, if anyone is interested.

    Price would be around $15 -$16 a quart, or maybe $50/ gal, plus shipping, depending on how much the containers might cost.

    I checked, and this gear lube is NOT classified as a haz substance for shipping. So any shipping method will work.

    If sufficient interest, I could pick up the lube and package the excess for shipment this week.

    Please let me know if interested.

    Thanks,
    Glenn
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  2. rrjohnso2000

    rrjohnso2000 United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Don't need any myself but applaud the offer.
     
  3. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You do not need to buy that brand oil in that big container, Glenn. You want 140 weight gear oil, but NOT hypoid. It is sold as GL-4 or GL-5/6. You should be able to buy that locally in quarts. Gear oil for an electric motor ain't rocket science...
     
  4. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    what bob said ....... you should be able to get a quart bottle of 140 gear oil at any auto parts store or farm supply store.
     
  5. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hi guys, Apparently from what I have read in the Master operators manual and the AGMA background material, there is a difference in additives and sometimes the base composition of gear box lube versus automotive gear lube. Gear box lube for example, is less viscous than automotive gear lube and performs differently in automotive applications than in electric motors. Certainly there is plenty of 75-140 wt automotive gear lube available, but it isn't rated for the Master motors gear box, that I can determine. Also, the ISO 460 lube primarily protects the gear reduction gears built into the master motor, and the different ratings correspond to ambient operating temperatures - with AGMA 5 and 6 being used in colder winter conditions, and AGMA 7 in hotter summer temps. Hence I've been trying to stay with the recommended specification ( the AGMA 7/ISO 460 rating) - which is available in my neck of the woods, but only in bulk.

    I've sent off a question as to lube comparability to the company. Hopefully they will reply in a day or so, and I'll post whatever they advise as follow up...

    Thanks much,
    Glenn
     
  6. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Gears are gears. You want to stay away from oils for hypoid differentials, which have EP (extreme pressure) additives (sulfur compounds that will corrode yellow metals) to take the higher point loading that hypoid gears have. They specifically sell oil without those additives for manual steering gear boxes and manual transmissions. ISO 460 and 140 weight are simply viscosity numbers in two parallel systems, nothing else. But please suit yourself. It is your money and your motor...
     
  7. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have a Master gear motor on mine. It has always had, does have, and always will have 140 gear oil without the additives ( not specified for use in newer vehicles). In fact, the tag on the gearbox simply says to use 140 gear oil. I get it from an auto supplier. It is in differentials in Model T fords. It is like molasses. I warm it up to pour it.
     
  8. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Well the plot thickens.

    I called Master gear head motor service dept just now. They identified the motor as a 6:1 parallel unit manufactured in 1946. So this is a replacement motor for the original Burke (circa 1942).

    They have no surviving service records that old for these motors, but say the earliest parrellel gear drive unit they do have, calls for SAE 40 transmission lube oil - not the 140 weight oil prescribed for the right angle AGP units. (SAE 30 weight for operation less than 50 F temps.)

    So there is a big difference between 40 wt and 140 gear lube.

    Any suggestions in which direction to err?

    Thanks
    Glenn
     
  9. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Go down to the local auto parts store and get a quart bottle of gear oil . That is all you need. They may call it 90 weight, but it is fine.
     
    JimDawson likes this.
  10. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Mark, looks like that's what Iam going to do. A lot less expensive than chasing the non obtainiam 460 stuff. Thanks
    Glenn
     
  11. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Gear boxes are very forgiving. Any heavy lube will work fine. Just don't use any of the modern synthetics. Get plain old oil in a heavy viscosity.
     
  12. John Hasler

    John Hasler United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Why?
     
  13. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Because SOME, not all synthetic transmission and transaxle lubes for many new vehicles such as some Mopar products have additives and chemicals that can react with some metals. They are designed to be used with the exotic alloys used now a days. I was warned about this by the manufacturer when working on my Jeep. Depending on the year. It is best to get plain old oil.
     
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  14. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yes, I found a mention of this also while researching the lube specification. Apparently some of the additives (sulphur and phosphorous maybe) added to the oil react with yellow metals - the brass/bronze alloys - that was added the older gear blanks- leaching the copper compounds out of the gearsover time and causing gear failure. The additives were designed to create a better film between modern, high pressure gear designs, but caused the aforementioned breakdown of older style gears. The additives in the last ten years or so have been altered to attempt to overcome this effect. However individual modern lubes are designed for a great many different and unique applications, so as Mark and Bob have said, the old style pure mineral oil based lubes are still the best recommended lube for our old gear boxes.
     
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  15. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    As a follow up note to what Mark and Bob have said, it looks like the proper specification for non -hypoid gear oil is "GL-1" . Gl-1 is straight mineral oil with no high performance additives. This was commonly used in manual transmissions in cars and various machinery up through the early 1960's . Gl 2-5 all have increasing amounts of additives. Definitely do not use Gl-5 rated lube oil as the additives will attack the yellow metals mentioned above. In the PNW, GL-1 is hard to find now, but I did locate some at three suppliers :

    -Shell Dentrex 80w-90 GL-1 line oil,
    - Tractor Supply carries a 'Ford Tractor all mineral oil GL-1', and
    - Napa Auto also shows a one gallon Gl-1 lube oil as a stock item.

    At least now I know for sure what I need for the Burke!

    Glenn
     
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  16. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The oil at tractor supply is perfect for your need.
     
  17. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks Mark. Actually I bought a gallon from Napa, as the Tractor Supply store was out of stock.

    Now, on to the Van Norman! I suspect I will use the same stuff in it...

    Glenn
     
  18. mark_f

    mark_f Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I would
     

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