Anybody Here Know How To Read This Pmi Readout?

intjonmiller

intjonmiller

Registered
Registered
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
894
I got a large (approx 17"x2"x0.5") piece of mystery tool steel from an industrial liquidation store (npsstore.com) in my area a few weeks ago. My brother took it to his work where they have a Positive Material Identification tool to read the actual composition. But I'm having trouble making sense of it in terms of identifying the actual alloy so I can find the appropriate application and heat treat info.

Because it is clearly a guillotine type blade I was expecting an A-series alloy, such as A2. But there's no manganese and chromium is too high, so it's not an A-series alloy. The display says "TS-D2/3/4" at the top. Not sure what that was, so I thought maybe it's saying, "Maybe a D-series alloy??" And that seems closer, but still not quite right, according to the charts I'm looking at.

And the readout doesn't even show Carbon composition. That seems weird. Anyway, here's the text from the scan:

#1597 General Metals
NAV Tools
Time 5.9 sec
+ TS-D2/3/4 1.6
Ele % +/-2 (greek symbol I forget the name of)
V 0.724 0.152
Cr 10.84 0.32
Fe 84.25 0.66
Ni 0.374 0.138
Mo 0.827 0.080
LEC 2.16 0.01​

Typing this on the computer. Image is on my phone, so I'll add it in the first comment. I asked my brother for more info about the tool and so forth (like a model number so I can look up the manual...), but I figure even if he comes back with precisely what I'm looking for this might still be an interesting exercise for the friendly folks of this forum. :)

IMG_0912.JPG IMG_0912.JPG
 
Oh. Apparently the image did upload. It didn't give me any indication that it had, so I was going to try again through tapatalk.
 
Assuming that was it I created a profile so I could download the manual. It's DENSE. As best I can tell that is the correct device, though I never saw a screenshot in the manual quite like that one. But it does appear that the "TS-D2/3/4" part is the identification. I'm reading it as "Tool Steel - D2/3/4". Again, the numbers aren't exactly the same (for any given alloy when one of the alloying elements is in spec another is out), but close enough for my needs.

How fun would it be to have one of those devices to just analyze everything you find? Maybe we should pool our change and buy one that we can pass around. I've got about $8. Who's with me? We only need another $8-12K or so. :)
 
intjonmiller said:
I got a large (approx 17"x2"x0.5") piece of mystery tool steel from an industrial liquidation store (npsstore.com) in my area a few weeks ago. My brother took it to his work where they have a Positive Material Identification tool to read the actual composition. But I'm having trouble making sense of it in terms of identifying the actual alloy so I can find the appropriate application and heat treat info.

Because it is clearly a guillotine type blade I was expecting an A-series alloy, such as A2. But there's no manganese and chromium is too high, so it's not an A-series alloy. The display says "TS-D2/3/4" at the top. Not sure what that was, so I thought maybe it's saying, "Maybe a D-series alloy??" And that seems closer, but still not quite right, according to the charts I'm looking at.

And the readout doesn't even show Carbon composition. That seems weird. Anyway, here's the text from the scan:

#1597 General Metals
NAV Tools
Time 5.9 sec
+ TS-D2/3/4 1.6
Ele % +/-2 (greek symbol I forget the name of)
V 0.724 0.152
Cr 10.84 0.32
Fe 84.25 0.66
Ni 0.374 0.138
Mo 0.827 0.080
LEC 2.16 0.01​

Typing this on the computer. Image is on my phone, so I'll add it in the first comment. I asked my brother for more info about the tool and so forth (like a model number so I can look up the manual...), but I figure even if he comes back with precisely what I'm looking for this might still be an interesting exercise for the friendly folks of this forum. :)

View attachment 130322 View attachment 130323
Click to expand...

There are a few nuggets of data one may observe.

The lack of a Carbon constituent is curious, this would make it a non steel material, steel is an alloy of Iron and Carbon by definition.

V is Vanadium
Cr is Chromium, 10.84% is slightly less then what is considered Stainless Steel
Fe is of course Iron
Ni is Nickle
Mo is Molybdenum
LEC as far as I can tell is not an element in the Periodic Table

Depending on material condition it should machine nicely, hardening is another ballgame. Many alloys of metals are made for one specific purpose in one specific Industry at a large scale, screwing around with such unknown materials often causes problems.
 
I eventually figured out that LEC is Lesser Element Composition, or something like that. I guess the carbon falls in that category in this case. According to the manual that LEC function can be turned on or off, and there's a function to replace all values with library-matched values when the scan falls within the margin of error of a known alloy. Pretty cool.

Apparently they decided at my brother's work that it would be cheaper to buy that thing than continue to screw up tooling with mystery metal that people kept trying to machine. I really need to get out there to see their operation. Wire EDM and CNC everything. Vibratory deburring and polishing. Powder coating. My kind of people. But they're an hour from where I work and, surprise!, open the same hours I'm at work.
 
The composition does look like D2 tool steel. The high chrome content gives it really good wear resistance. I have machined a lot of it. Work hardens if you look at it wrong, but if you keep the feed rate up it machines pretty well, just don't let the tool bit rub.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top