1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

[CNC] Anilam 3200mk Help

Discussion in 'CNC IN THE HOME SHOP' started by 95ttoplt1, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    The VFD must be connected directly to the motor, with no disconnects or relays between the the VFD and the motor. The existing spindle motor pushbutton station must be wired into the VFD control terminals, or must have intervening relays if it also needs to be connected to the control cabinet. The VFD has a set of what they are calling ''multi-function inputs'', these are what controls the VFD. These inputs are internally powered by the VFD and can not be connected to 120V external power.

    You are going the have to do some rewiring to make everything work correctly. I suspect there are 5 or 6 wires from the pushbutton station that went to the power cabinet that ran the motor starter and E-stop. You don't need the remote operator station that is available for the VFD. It is possible you might need a couple of small ''ice cube'' relays to interface the controls, but I don't think so. I don't think the CNC controller controls the spindle motor at all, or even knows if the spindle is running or not.

    The next step is to identify the wires from the pushbutton station and match them with the terminals in the power cabinet. Once you have that information, I can help you with a diagram of the original, and then the modifications needed for the VFD install.
    .
    .
     
    95ttoplt1 likes this.
  2. derf

    derf Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Delphos
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    Look at the console........There is a spindle control and an E stop right on the front. That is where mine is controlled. I don't know if yours is wired from that, or the other big mass of switches on the machine, but it is an option. And , that would tell me that the spindle can be signaled though the controller.
     
    95ttoplt1 likes this.
  3. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks fellas. I'll look at that in the morning and retort back. I appreciate all the help!
     
  4. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    Busy day. The VFD is wired to the incoming 220 1ph, and to the outlet plug. The motor is rewired for 240v 3ph. It took most of the day as I had to fix a bunch of little nit noid wiring on that side of the shop with other outlets and such, new conduit ect ect. The motor was wired just as you described Jim and the diagram on the side confirmed your rewire instructions.

    Now the VFD powered up with no escapement of magical smoke!

    20160217_152508.jpg

    And Fred the front of my control has the same buttons! I'm super excited about that, but at a loss right now on how to make that talk to the VFD.

    20160217_113529.jpg

    I ended the day with a run to town and got a electric fan for the top of the spindle motor, and a couple pieces to make an adapter to mount it, and a switch(cave man I know). At the end of the this I would like the fan to automatically run when the spidle is turned on, and then run until under a certain temp. That is icing on the cake at this point. I have a switch for now.

    So now to the masses, how do I go about talking to the VFD with push buttons, or with my console? I did see those multifunction inputs, and I saw an mention of a different manual for the VFD that I might have to search and download.

    I took picture of the back of the push button control center, but you cant see the wire numbers until I start unhooking things. They are the red wires ran into the left of the power supply box. I have unhooked them from the box for the moment as they needed to enter from another side.

    The picture below is the left side of the box and those red wires on the left are going to the little gray control box. Tommorows adventure! Now, I will say that with my meter, all these seemed screwed into a bus bar and connected, which makes no sense to me.

    Number 2 is the hot wire off the left side of the transformer(which is working as advertised, atleast before I unhooked all these red wires, I didn't check it again after).
    20160217_152658.jpg

    This is the back of the push button panel

    20160216_171921.jpg

    With my new fan, should I blow into the motor, or being drawing air out?


    Thank you all very much for getting me this far. Super close to turning the spindle which is a massive step forward for me!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  5. derf

    derf Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Delphos
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    I looked at mine and the contactors are slightly different, but the controller will operate the contacts. That's why I said not to remove it. I removed all of the 3 phase power going to the contactors, because you no longer need that going straight to the VFD. The 24 v DC circuit that controls the spindle fwd, spindle rev, stop in the VFD, gets wired through the contactors. When the controller sends a signal to the motor contactors, they close and complete the circuit to the VFD. I also used one side of the contactor to operate the auxiliary fan, so when the spindle comes on, so does the fan.
    I would imagine the quickest way to find out if your contactors are controlled through the console is to push the spindle fwd button and listen for a click.
    contactors.jpg
     
    95ttoplt1 likes this.
  6. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks Fred. I did leave those contactors in, and all the wiring. I know my console doesn't control them as there is no wires going from the CNC box to the power supply where those are located.

    Where does this 24v power come from?

    I'll have to dig into some box and see where the signal comes out of the Anilam Console for spindle control. You wouldn't happen to know this would you? Will the 3200mk control spindle speed with the VFD?

    You guys have been a god send in this process. I'd still be sitting there staring in that box like a hog looking at wrist watch!

    edit. I just looked up where Delphos is, we got this mill in Marion, not too far from you.
     
  7. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    You are making great progress! :encourage: Looking good!

    You can run the fan directly from the VFD using the Multi-function Relay Output. The function is programmable, so it could be set to come on below a some RPM, or it looks like there is a provision for a Thermistor input on the VFD. This would give you thermal control for the fan. I need to study this a bit to understand how to use the thermistor. I'll have some time in a couple of days.

    Looks like you can download all of the manuals here
    https://industrial.omron.eu/en/prod...y_inverters/compact_solution/mx2/default.html

    This is where I confuse the He!! out of you. :confused: Wire #2 is roughly equivalent to a Neutral, hence the reason that it's white. It is common the actually ground this wire to the chassis at the transformer, so the transformer output does not ''float'' relative to the ground. The Red wires are considered the ''Hot'' (not grounded) side of the transformer output. All low (120V side) voltage measurements in the power circuit are measured to the #2 wire. In other words, between Red and White (#2). A Neutral is defined as ''a grounded, current carrying, conductor'' A Safety Ground (green wire) is defined as ''A grounded, non-current carrying, conductor''

    Speaking of grounds, bring all of the grounds back to a single point in the chassis, you already have the ground lug there. This helps to prevent ''ground loops'' which can play havoc with electronic signals.

    Blow into the motor, in the same direction as the motor fan.

    The VFD has it's own internal 24VDC supply for operating the inputs. Do not use this 24V supply for anything but operating the VFD inputs.

    I'll be out of the office all day, so again I'll be slow to respond.
    .
    .
     
    95ttoplt1 likes this.
  8. derf

    derf Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Delphos
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    The source that energizes the contactors is on the servo control board. On the left side of your board, there are 2 terminal blocks. The one on top has 8 terminals, just below it is one with 5 or 6 terminals.....this is the one. On my board this is labeled P13, yours may differ.
    From the top down, 1=AC hot(brown) 2=thermal(black) 3=forward(orange) 4=reverse(brown)5=coolant(yellow) 6=AC neutral(white).
     
    95ttoplt1 likes this.
  9. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    I understand that neutral concept acutally. The divind line between the positive and negative swings in the A/C sine wave correct?

    The grounds are hooked up as you describe. The neutral is grounded that way(Not that it would matter as my neutral bar and green ground bar are bolted together in the breaker box, something I never understood)

    I don't have a motor fan any more! The knuckle head I bought it from broke it off. This will completely replace it, so it will be on full time.

    That is the next step for sure!

    Solid gold Fred! Thanks so much. I'll look into that tomorrow.

    I decided I didn't like where I mounted the power supply box so I unwired it, and took it down. Then I removed the CNC control box from the mill, and moved them around a bit to find a good layout. I ended up putting the power supply box right back where I had it and mounted the CNC control box on the wall to the right of the mill. All my motor control cables reach when at the extreme of the axis so we should be good!

    I went to lunch and got a migraine and spent the rest of the day in bed. Maybe tomorrow.
     
  10. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Mmmmmmmm.......No:) This explains it better than I can, a picture is worth a thousand words ;)

    Household-transformer-32a.jpg



    How and where the Neutral and Ground are connected depends on local code and the age of the system. In Oregon for instance, mobile homes and floating homes (houseboats) are required to have a 4 wire system, 4 wires running from the power pole to the breaker panel, with the neutral and ground as separate wires. The neutral and ground are not connected at the breaker box, and run all the way back to the power pole. This may also be code for all new construction, not sure about that.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    Might be. I only have three wires into the panel from the pole.

    I'm a bad explainer. this is what I meant by the dividing(not divinded haha) line in the A/C sine wave. I think its showing the same thing as you picture, just in a medium I understand, FAT CRAYONS!! hahaha

    TAXWp.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    JimDawson likes this.
  12. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    Love that drawing :grin big: I guess you have it figured out, close enough for this discussion. :encourage:
     
  13. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    TA-DA!!



    I turned it on manually with the buttons on the face of the VFD like a simpleton. I did a bunch more little detail wiring and built my fan. I just need to figure out how I'm going to turn it on, and how to control the VFD. Downloading the manuals now and doing some reading!
     
    JimDawson and Steve Shannon like this.
  14. derf

    derf Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Delphos
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    I got to thinking about why the spindle controls were on a separate box, then it hit me.....
    I believe they have to be that way to run the mill manually without CNC. I know that I can't turn my spindle on, WITHOUT the servos fired up. If the servos are on, you won't be able to manually crank the table.
     
    95ttoplt1 and JimDawson like this.
  15. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    That is a big step forward. :encourage:

    I'm still running mine from the front panel
    upload_2016-2-19_22-49-56.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
    95ttoplt1 likes this.
  16. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    ok. Based on what Fred mentioned I'm going to just wire in my little button panel. For conversation continuity lets call this the "control panel".

    So in this manual

    http://downloads.omron.eu/IAB/Produ...e/MX2/I570/I570-E2-02B+3G3MX2+UsersManual.pdf

    Book Page 195(PDF pg 221) it starts talking about those inputs. I found a great picture that had them all labeled in a diagram and now I can't find it.

    From the looks of these diagrams it looks like simple two wire push buttons would work. Do these need to latch? or does a simple signal turn on the feature(fwd or rev for example) and another push turns it off?
     
  17. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    Of course the lables on the instructions don't match the inverter. .. 20160220_151538.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  18. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    I fixed the bent X bracket today and found, not surprisingly, that the belt in there was wrecked as well.
     
  19. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    It looks like you can use 3 wire control (momentary contact pushbuttons) for start and stop. For forward and reverse, it seems to require a maintained contact switch. See section 4-5-9, page 212. Any of the inputs can be programed for STA, STP, and F/R. I would use S1, S2, and S3 for these functions. It takes a while to wade through that manual, it's not written for the first time user.
     
    95ttoplt1 likes this.
  20. derf

    derf Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Delphos
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    Once you get the controls figured out, I would still use a remote pot for speed control. The little dinky knobs on the VFD's seem to be hard to operate with greasy fingers. I made a custom dial for my pot with movable stops to preset an operating range for the job. I calibrated the dial right off the digital tach, and as you can see the pot is quite linear. I don't pay much attention to the tach anymore.I have several jobs that runs tools at 2 different speeds, and it very handy to just flip the dial from one stop to the other without having to look. pot.jpg
     
    95ttoplt1 likes this.
  21. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    Aint that the truth! I read through there a few times in bed and my alarm woke me up in the moring haha.

    3 wire control seems a bit odd to me. Now that we are in DC shouldn't it just take a two pole switch? connect the poles to turn it on? What is the third pole for?

    Or are three poles for a FWD/REV switch with a power input pole?

    That's a neat idea thanks. I thought with SVC I would have a tach feedback or output on this thing, but maybe not. I don't have a dial on the front, increase or decrease is push button. I'll have to look into the pot idea, that would be nice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  22. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    On the CNC power supply front, does anyone know what colors coming off the power supply need what for voltage? That's the next step on that part and I'm at a dead stop until I figure that out.
     
  23. derf

    derf Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Delphos
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    Not sure if i understand.....got pics?
     
  24. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    I'll make a video tomorrow
     
  25. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-


    This is a standard non VFD 3 wire control for a motor starter. And it's is incorrect, the contact labled Ma should be Normally Open, not normally closed as shown. I'm just too tired to go find another diagram. The 3rd wire is between the buttons.
    faq031_motor_control_circuit_utilizing_3-wire_control.jpg


    Ignore everything on the diagram below except the stop and start buttons. Note the 3 wires going to them.

    VFD-installation-diagram-1317.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  26. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    ah ok. Seems like two switches with a shared input to me, but I see the principal.

    I think I'm going to remake the control box and mount it on the front of the head for easy access. I need to figure out what switches I have in the box now, as I don't think they are what I need to run the VFD.

    Did anyone see how to use a pot for speed control? I didn't but more than likely it is called something I'm not familiar with.

    Time to go make a video!
     
  27. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    The start and stop buttons should work, but you need a maintained contact for FOR/REV as far as I can tell.

    See Section 4-7 Analog Input Operation, page 250
    .
    .
     
  28. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

  29. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

    Likes Received:
    3,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Sandy
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    A few thoughts, you mentioned setting the VFD to go up to 120Hz, I would not do that on a variable speed head. 4200 is fast enough for your spindle bearings.

    The Power Feed Start is a switch as well as an indicator. It may be stuck. That is wired to the Anilam relay board and enables the drives. In the drive panel, Anilam used black and white for the 120V AC power. In my panel they used orange (+) and gray (-) for the DC power to the drives. The wires coming from the power supply: Who knows, but I'm guessing you might find the voltages silk screened onto the board.
    .
    .
     
  30. 95ttoplt1

    95ttoplt1 United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City:
    clarksville
    State:
    Tennessee

    -Return to Top-

    great! I'll pull it to investigate in the house this afternoon.
     

Share This Page