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5C spindle adapter Sheldon UM-56-P 13" swing

Discussion in 'SHELDON LATHES' started by earthbound, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. earthbound

    earthbound United States Iron Registered Member

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    Hi folks, I have a question about my lathe that I seem to get a lot of conflicting information on when I scour the internet. It's about the spindle taper dimensions. It's really unclear what exactly I need to suit my needs with regards to a 5C spindle adapter. I have read countless times that the L00 noses take a morse taper 4.5, but now that I just purchased a MT4.5 to MT3 adapter from grizzly, I'm seeing that that's not the case. I own a dead center MT5 that also doesn't seem to seat quite nicely. I've read about the issues with it sticking out ~4 inches but I just don't feel it seat correctly like a MT3 does in my tailstock. Can someone either confirm or deny the "modified MT5" that I've seen tossed around these forums? I have my lathe setup to cut a MT4.5 with a larger gauge line right now (using that MT4.5 adapter as a reference), but I don't want to waste my time if it's actually supposed to be a MT5 with a smaller gauge line. Thank you in advance for your help.

    Drew
     
  2. dlane

    dlane Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I've been told they are a short mt 5
    I have a te1256 p, but haven't messed with it yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  3. earthbound

    earthbound United States Iron Registered Member

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    Thanks for the input dlane. Maybe the MT5 dead center I have is a little wonky? It just doesn't seem to lock so well. I'll try polishing it and reinserting it. If it locks, I can just use that as a reference and machine the adapter with an appropriate gauge line.
     
  4. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    It's really a 4-3/4 Morse taper, which is non-existence. The gage line at the face is 1.625", with a taper equivalent to a no. 5 Morse taper. There is a drawing of the collet adapter available in the Sheldon Lathe group on Yahoo. If I can find the drawing, I'll post it here.

    Ken
     

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  5. earthbound

    earthbound United States Iron Registered Member

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    Ken, thanks for the drawing! That will be helpful. Upon looking at the dimensions however, the indicated taper on the drawing doesn't match that of a MT5. The taper per inch comes out to .0498" taper/ inch. Whereas, a MT5 should be .0526" taper/ inch. Is it definitely supposed to be a MT5 taper with a 1.625" gauge line? Or is it a "Sheldon" taper?
     
  6. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    It's been a while since I checked the taper against my adapter. I swear up and down the taper is exact to a 5 morse taper. I get a chance tomorrow I'll recheck it. Ken

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  7. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I checked the collet adapter and I come up with .0507" taper per inch. The adapter I have has been checked against two different Sheldon spindles and blue in exact!!!
    I want to check this one more time when I get a chance and make sure of my measurements. Ken

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  8. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Ken,

    I put the drawing in DOWNLOADS. If we need to edit it, let me know.

    That's the problem with these "specials". Sheldon isn't the only one to pull this. It's my understanding that there are at least two different companies that call their taper "MT4.5". And they apparently aren't the same. At the other end of the cost spectrum, AA did the same thing with 0MT.
     
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  9. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Robert,

    Was checking over the drawing, It's not 100% correct according to the adapter I have on hand. When I get a chance, I'll redraw to what I believe is correct.

    I recall reading somewhere, and I'm not going to mention any names right now, that Sheldon did not make any of these adapters. They were supposedly made by Royal and maybe one of the other tooling manufactures out there, too. I don't know how true this is, but is probably a valid statement to say.
     
  10. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    OK. I'll add a note to the entry in DOWNLOADS for now. Adding a note to the actual drawing would be more trouble so I'll wait on doing that until you are sure of your numbers.

    If the Sheldon spindle taper is supposed to be 5MT, I would see whether actual measurements confirm that.

    As for who actually made the adapters, Royal would be a good guess. It isn't generally known who actually made them in the 1930's or 40's (Atlas or some sub-contractor) but by the 60's, Royal was making the lever-type collet closers for the Atlas 12" machines that Atlas made and Atlas and Sears sold..
     
  11. earthbound

    earthbound United States Iron Registered Member

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    This is all very good information to know. Thanks for all the help so far guys! Looks like I might have to do this one with a pair of indicators after all! Ken, if you do end up redrawing it, would you mind posting it here again? Please and thank you.
     
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  12. Asm109

    Asm109 United States Iron Registered Member

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    Recently I made a collet adapter for my Heavy 10. I wanted to use 1J collets instead of 5C. Why? because I got a full set for free.
    I used a chunk of pre hardened 4140.
    First I used a 10ths reading test indicator to set the compound at the angle of the far side of the spindle taper.
    Mounted my stock in the 4 jaw chuck and indicated in fairly close. My 4 jaw is in better shape and has deeper jaws than my 3 jaw.
    Rough turned the OD to a bit larger than the large end of the spindle opening.
    Drill and bored the ID to 1.2505 so the back end of the collets was a close sliding fit.
    Used the compound to turn the OD taper to match the spindle.
    Part off
    Set the compound to the angle of the 5C taper (20 degree included I think)
    I did this by mounting a straight piece of stock (I used a 1/2 diameter transfer punch) in the 4 jaw, indicate in.
    Put a hose clamp on OD of collet near taper.
    Slide collet onto stock (threaded end first) and tighten clamp.
    Mount dial indicator so it touches side of collet taper and adjust compound for zero indicator motion.
    Remove chuck and mount your workpiece directly into the spindle.
    Check runout of bore. Should be well less than 0.001 inch.
    Bore taper for 5 c collet with compound.
    Enjoy your new capability.
     
  13. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Active Member Active Member

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    Those adapters are going higher all the time. Saw a couple today one was $113.00 @ $125.00. I lucked out about two months ago and bought tool lot one was in there and I only had to spend $25.00. Pure luck of looking beyond the junk to see the taper on the pipe and the big lip. They are hard to find the same one will fit several different lathes.
     
  14. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I was fortunate, mine came with my Sheldon lathe when I bought it over 38 years ago. Royal will make you one if a person is interested in buying one. The cost is probably around $250-300! Just for the spindle adapter. JFK may even offer one too.
     
  15. earthbound

    earthbound United States Iron Registered Member

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    So I stoned and polished my MT5 dead center today, slid it into the spindle and I now notice a much tighter fit. I'd say it feels like an MT5 "locking taper" fit to me. And frankly, for the line of work I do, that'll be fine. I actually want to utilize 5C collets for turning vulcanite pipe stems, as pipe carving is my second hobby. Making a lot of these in one sitting would be much nicer with a collet setup. Thanks for all the advice so far gentlemen. I'll keep you posted with what I'm able to come up with. Perhaps some pictures to follow.
     
  16. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Here's my drawing for the collet adapter I have on hand.

    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/collet-adatper.3228/

    5C Collet Adapter with the "4-3/4" Morse taper.

    This is for all the older R series lathes with 1-7/16 or 1-1/2 spindle bores with either L-00 or 2.375-8 spindle nose. For most Sheldon lathes made before serial umber 26000 give or take. Will not work with the later R series lathes with 2-1/4 spindle bores.

    Dimensions were very accurately measured and recorded as drawn. The dimensions for the 5C collet register were taken from a Hardinge Brothers drawing from the internet.

    Ken
     
  17. wa5cab

    wa5cab Downloads Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks. I edited the title slightly.

    BTW, how did you come out during/after Harvey.
     
  18. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks Robert. I know the fiasco you went thru to straighten out the down load section.
    I came out better than most. A few missing shingles and a few other things. Im aggravated my insurance company will not give me a new roof!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     

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